Fast pace

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Fast pace
by Simon Perreault on Saturday 08/Sep/2001, @23:54

I think I'm in love with this quick one-release-a-month way of doing things.

Keep up the good work!!!

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Re: Fast pace
by jamal on Sunday 09/Sep/2001, @01:37

It is too fast...
I even haven't have chance to upgrade to KDE2.2 and planning to do it this week until I read this news of KDE 2.2.1 release.
Question: If I Install the KDE 2.2 now, is it easy to upgrade it KDE 2.2.1 or Do I need to download again all the libraries (20 packages or more)? Should I wait for KDE 2.2.1 instead?

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Re: Fast pace
by Daniel Molkentin on Sunday 09/Sep/2001, @02:09

> Question: If I Install the KDE 2.2 now, is it easy to upgrade it KDE 2.2.1 or Do I need
> to download again all the libraries (20 packages or more)? Should I wait for KDE 2.2.1
> instead?

Better wait until 2.2.1 is out. It fixes several bugs. For several reasons discussed >1000 times we do only provide the tarballs as a whole and most packagers create completely new RPMs, so there won't be a smaller "upgrade version".

Cheers,

</daniel>

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Re: Fast pace
by Robert Tilley on Sunday 09/Sep/2001, @08:35

<P>Hmmm...this is only a rant/flame but if installing new updates is such a complicated matter with your distro, you can always switch to Debian and have everything done for you.
<P>P.S. Daniel, "we do only provide tarballs" is not very grammatical. I believe that should read "we only provide" and the do is implied. [Major flame/rant]

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Re: Fast pace
by Steven on Sunday 09/Sep/2001, @09:01

I tried Progeny Debian last week, and the "latest" release of KDE for Progeny was 2.0. I found a site where I could get KDE 2.1, but it didn't have instructions on how to install it from within Debian.

I've been running SuSE Linux 7.2 for a while, and have KDE2.2 installed from several very nicely packaged RPMs, available from SuSE's LinuKS (Linux KDE Service) site.

Debian itself seems to be fine, but in order to get the latest and greatest, you almost always have to compile from tarballs.. so why even bother with Debian in the first place?

This is a serious question, not meant to be a flame or a cutdown on Debian.. I simply want to know.. with Debian having this great package management system.. how come the latest and greatest software isn't available on Debian when it is for other Distros, like SuSE, RedHat or Mandrake?

Thanks,
Steven

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Re: Fast pace
by Spark on Sunday 09/Sep/2001, @09:14

It's not?

merlin:/home/spark# apt-cache show kdebase
Package: kdebase
Priority: optional
Section: x11
Installed-Size: 16456
Maintainer: Ivan E. Moore II <rkrusty@debian.org>
Architecture: i386
Version: 4:2.2.0.20010822-1

You just have to use the "unstable" branch, easy as that.
And no, you system won't become unstable because you do that. ;)
It's just that you will NEVER find anything in stable that isn't tested out for months and you'll never find anything in "testing", that is just packaged (A few days after usually).
So use unstable but don't do a dist-upgrade, just fetch all the sotware you need.
You'll get all the latest and greatest packages, nicely packaged by over 500 dedicated maintainers, mostly a few days (or even faster) after the source is released.
KDE and Gnome packages are usually available at the day of their release.
I never have to compile from source, unless I want to try out a CVS version or a 0.0.1 app in development.

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Re: Fast pace
by Spark on Sunday 09/Sep/2001, @09:25

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Re: Fast pace
by Spark on Sunday 09/Sep/2001, @09:02

Jep, Debian is just GREAT for KDE. :)
Never had such a nice KDE installation and it was never that easy.
That was the first time I did with Debian back in the good old days of KDE 2.0 and that was the reason why I fell in love with Debian. :)
But this doesn't change the problem that upgrading everything KDE will be a pain for modem users. :) Especially if they have to pay for their onlinetime.
Fortunatly, that shouldn't be many anymore. :)

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Re: Fast pace
by Rakko on Sunday 09/Sep/2001, @22:23

The main problem I have with Debian's KDE packages is that by default they install Debian's menu items in the same menus as the KDE-only stuff. I prefer to separate KDE apps from non-KDE ones. Similarly, I somewhat dislike how everything installs in /usr/share instead of like /usr/kde or something like that, but I suppose it's in the spirit of the FSSTND.

Minor gripes though. Anyway, keep up the good work, KDE and Debian!

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Re: Fast pace
by Oskuro on Monday 10/Sep/2001, @03:38

Actually, it's in the spirit of the FHS :)
It's been a pain to complete the transition, lets not go back again :P

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Re: Fast pace
by Spark on Monday 10/Sep/2001, @05:07

Hmm, for me Debian puts it's own menus in submenus, like
Utilities -> Debian -> Application
That's pretty handy.
Don't know why though, maybe it's a different "menu" version.
And if you don't like this at all, you can just do a
apt-get remove menu
This won't hurt you much.

About /usr, that's a matter of taste. I for one HATE seperate directorys for every desktop. I mean, usually 90% of my applications are from one desktop, so this is not ONE part, it's THE part of the system, that's why it should be in /usr and not /usr/kde or even worse /opt/kde! This is just causing incompatibilities.

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Re: Fast pace
by Rakko on Sunday 23/Sep/2001, @09:41

Oh yeah, that's what I meant: Debian icons go in submenus of the KDE menus. I prefer to have a "Debian" submenu off the K menu and put all that stuff in there. Mostly just because most non-KDE, non-GNOME apps don't have icons (and the ones that do don't look nice like KDE ones), and I hate the look of a menu full of nice KDE icons mixed with "unknown" icons :)
Yes, just a matter of taste.

[And yeah, I meant FHS, not FSSTND. I knew it had a different name but was too tired to think of it :)]

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Re: Fast pace
by Greg on Monday 10/Sep/2001, @14:12

Actually, I don't like it and I have several reasons why.

First: Stability. I like a cutting edge system, but I also want it to work. With only a month for programmers to find and fix bugs, releases get out that are not exactly stable. Also, it doesn't give a lot of time to optimize code. You can get it to work, but will it work fast and efficient?

Second: Upgrading. I would rather wait until a program has been fully implemented than to see little bits and pieces of improvement or fixes as releases go by. Its progress, but it doesn't seem worth going through an upgrade.

Third: Time. For nine out of 12 months I live on a college campus and have a blistering fast T3 connection. For the other 3 I live off campus and have a 56k dialup modem. Pretty soon I plan to live off campus 12 months a year (all year) and will have a 56k modem until broadband prices fall and it becomes available in whatever area I will live in. That said, it will take me quite some time to download the tarballs for a release. Compiling, too takes some time (even on a 1 gig Athlon). So I would want to actually spend more time in the windowmanager than getting it and compiling it. My grandmother is quoted by saying "I don't want to spend the rest of my life in front of a computer when there really isn't much left." She's pushing 70 years now and is moderately healthy, but you can understand her argument.

Fourth: Time. This is different in that it relates to the developers. This is free software and so any of the developers develop as volunteers. Consequently, I don't wish to rush them or crowd their lives anymore than they might already be because this college kid wants pretty fonts on a free OS. Also, I soon will be among the list of developers around the world, and intend to contribute to the open source community; still, I would consider it a secondary activity (if not a hobby), presumably as do many of the developers of KDE and its app family. Hobby should not take precedence over making a living. That may sound overly capitalistic, but "whoever said money is the root of all evil obviously never went hungry." I forgot who said that, maybe it was a rapper, maybe it was Murphy.

So thats my opinion, not meant to be inflammatory. Maybe I will be one of the KDE developers one day, or will develop a really cool KDE app. Only time will tell.

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