Re: :-(

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Re: :-(
by gt on Tuesday 25/Dec/2001, @13:56

uhh? this has what to do with either his interview or kde in general?

for what you know, he could be a palestinian :)

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Re: :-(
by Alex on Wednesday 26/Dec/2001, @02:22

Excuse me, but what _you_ know? "All those Orientals are all very similar, I can never tell Jew from Arab"? Palestinian he is certainly not. Palestinian, in the first place, would NEVER act as Hebrew KDE translation maintainer.

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Re: :-(
by gt on Friday 28/Dec/2001, @11:17

>Palestinian he is certainly not. in the first place, would NEVER act as Hebrew KDE translation maintainer.

Uhm, I reiterate that it doesn't matter anyways...but.. you still can't generalize like that. Many Palestinians know Hebrew too (from the necessity of jobs, mainly).

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Re: :-(
by Alex on Friday 28/Dec/2001, @15:32

It matters sometimes... I didn't ever say that Palestinians don't know Hebrew - many of them do, and even better than Israelis. I just said that Palestinian would most probably not ( if you don't like the word 'never') act as Hebrew translation maintainer - mostly of ideological reasons.

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Re: :-(
by illya_the_great on Saturday 29/Dec/2001, @13:31

I would figure that they would not translate programs to Hebrew since the Israeli army insists on rolling in to their neighborhoods and sniping people at random. It seems like a good reason to me. I would not translate programs to the native tongue of whatever group is occupying my country either.

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Re: :-(
by Betzalel Ben-Tzion on Saturday 29/Dec/2001, @22:04

Excuse me, but I felt compelled to correct the errors expressed in the above comment.

Israel fights terrorism by eliminating terrorists before they have a chance to strike. Specifically, Israeli snipers target bomb makers,terroristorganizational leaders, terrorist tactical leaders, terrorist infrastructure, and would-be terrorist suicide bombers. These are not "random people." The Palestinian terrorist groups target random Israelis by detonating themselves in packed Israeli districts. Palestinian terrorists do not CARE whom they hit -- this includes Israeli arabs who may just be shopping in downtown Jerusalem when they are blown to bits along with twenty other Jewish kids. To say that Israelis are "rolling in" and "sniping people at random" is plain incorrect.

Additionally, to state that Israelis occupy any Palestinian's "country" is similarly incorrect and inciteful. What Palestinian land do Israelis now occupy? The West Bank and Gaza? or just everything between Lake Kineret and the Mediterranean sea? To argue that Israelis occupy any Palestinian land not already under the control of the Palestinian Authority implies that Israelis do not belong in their own country -- and this flies in the face of Israel's established right to exist. The whole concept is rendered irrelevant considering that there is technically no Palestinian "country".

Perhaps this kind of warfare has (hopefully, G-d forbid) not happened in your country, and you therefore can not relate.
I encourage you to read your history so that you can post opinions that are rooted in fact, and not in what is spoon fed to us by CNN and BBC et al.

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Re: :-(
by Alex on Sunday 30/Dec/2001, @01:58

According to some spelling nuances in the nick, it seems to me that this particular guy you answered to is spoonfed not by CNN or BBC, but by Russian propaganda machine. And this country is well known for dual morality - they conduct anti-terrorist war in Chechnya to defend themselves, and they blame Israel for conducting anti-terrorist war to defend themselves. It's all a matter of perception, though - Chechnya is not perceived by the world as "occupied country fighting for independence" ( in spite of that it is exactly this in Chechens' perception), and therefore Chechnya war is an "internal affair" of Russia.

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Re: :-(
by illya_the_great on Wednesday 02/Jan/2002, @13:48

I am not Russian, I live in the United States. I can speak some Russian, though.

>>Alex:"According to some spelling nuances in the nick, it seems to me that this particular guy you answered to is spoonfed not by CNN or BBC, but by Russian propaganda machine. And this country is well known for dual morality - they conduct anti-terrorist war in Chechnya to defend themselves, and they blame Israel for conducting anti-terrorist war to defend themselves."

Okay you seem to be too much of a jingoist. Do you attack what you think the nationality is of anyone who makes a comment or criticism of Israel? You seem to, because you think I am Russian, seek to discredit me by ad hominem attacking me for what my nation supposedly does. That is not how arguments are done. You address my argument and not wherever you happen to think I live.

>>Alex: "It's all a matter of perception, though - Chechnya is not perceived by the world as "occupied country fighting for independence" ( in spite of that it is exactly this in Chechens' perception), and therefore Chechnya war is an "internal affair" of Russia."

You are correct that terrorism is a relative term, but other than that you were inaccurate. A good definition of terrorism as the medias and governments of the world use the word is:

Terrorism- any group/nation/entity/etc. that your media and government see as against their interests that use violence.

The best example I can think of is, when the United States was the ally of Iraq, the PKK(Kurdish insurgents) were 'terrorists' in the American press. When Iraq was the enemy of the United States these same 'terrorists' were portrayed by the press as 'freedom fighters.' What caused this change? Iraq went from being my nation's ally to our enemy. When they were our ally you never heard about any of this "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction," nonsense. I do not hear, from my media, about how Israel and Turkey, our allies have even more 'weapons of mass destruction' than Iraq ever has possessed. It seem that they do not care about nations having chemical weapons, using violence, unless they happen to be our enemy.

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Re: :-(
by Me on Sunday 30/Dec/2001, @07:33

"bomb makers,terroristorganizational leaders, terrorist tactical leaders" are only a small fraction of a total number of casualties in this war. Demonstrators, often kids, who were throwing stones, are the rest, it didn't bring the order but rather raised the conflict. Israel de facto occupies the West Bank and Gaza, of course, but the problem is that the both nations belong to their own country ( this is the same country if you ask ), but they don't want to live together - not the first time in the history - it led to the tragic end many times ...
I'm afraid that the both sides can't live in other way - they are addicted to it. Arm industry is the biggest part of Israel economy( about 20% IIRC ), military-industrial complex isn't interested in the peace, what will all those generals be doing after all ? Believe me I'm very far from conspiracy theories, but if you want to know how military-industrial complex works you may ask illia_the_great ( from Russia ) even if they have it much below 20% now.

PS.
In United States you have a very small sample of this - energy industry and bush jr administration.

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Re: :-(
by Duraid Madina on Sunday 30/Dec/2001, @13:08

Betzalel,

Clearly, not all Israelis are as enlightened as yourself. Maybe you have some education to do in your home country? I mean just look at what some of the less intelligent Israelis are getting up to - building websites like this:

http://www.btselem.org/

Of course, there are many Americans, some of whom have never been to Israel, who could use some education too:

http://www.nimn.org/

But to convince the world that Israel is fighting terrorism, and not oppressing people who struggle to live in a land that Israel continues to occupy illegally, you'd have to enlighten the United Nations. Maybe you could start with that damn "general assembly" (G-d only knows what a waste of time some of those countries are) - they are just a huge mob of UN officials who read everything spoon fed to them from CNN, BBC et al. and end up writing trash like this:

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/ec8db69f77e7a33e052567270057e591/33c13e085d306717852569570055cda8!OpenDocument

And damn, they write a lot of it too! There's an entire _database_ of it!

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF?OpenDatabase

WE MUST STOP THEM, BETZALEL!!

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Re: :-(
by illya_the_great on Wednesday 02/Jan/2002, @14:10

Betzalel Ben-Tzion>>"The whole concept is rendered irrelevant considering that there is technically no Palestinian "country"."

The Israeli government and media claims it wants 'peace'. Apparently this invovles sending settlers into the Gaza Strip and West Bank to take even more Palestinian land and bringing in the army along with it to choke of these small strips from the rest of the world.

>>Betzalel Ben-Tzion:"I encourage you to read your history "

Be forwith and honest. Just say you want me to read zionist history. The history that says it is the Jews divine right to occupy what they now call Israel. I have heard that history, and it does not seem in touch with reality. I have also heard about how the Jews were persecuted by Rome, the Russians, Spainards, Germans and they now deserve a homeland, even if that means violently displacing another group, the Palestinians. It does not make sense, now does it? The Jews are persecuted and it was wrong according to Zionist history, but the Jews as persecutors is right of Palestinians today, is somehow right? So according to Zionist history, persecution is only wrong when committed against the Jews. No thanks, I do not want to believe that revisionist history.

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Re: :-(
by illya_the_great on Wednesday 02/Jan/2002, @14:13

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Re: :-(
by illya_the_great on Wednesday 02/Jan/2002, @14:14

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Re: :-(
by Alex on Friday 04/Jan/2002, @00:41

To answer both to your answer to me and to your answer to Betzalel:
I happened to be born in former USSR, so I know their dual morality well. And don't attack you according to your nationality, both I and Betzalel just are sorry that people make their opinion about the world and Israel in particular according to CNN spoonfeeding or according to Russian propaganda.
And once more, read the history - and read between the lines sometimes. Do you know that the name "Palestine" by itself was established by the Romans, according to the name of some tribe, which had been defeated and ceased to exist several centuries before Romans came?

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