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Re: Desktop look...
by Julien Olivier on Friday 08/Feb/2002, @09:38
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With Gnome, I can't create a PHP script on my desktop, then, using DND, put it on ftp://login:pass@ftp.mywebsite.com and vice versa.
I can't pop down ALL my windows in one time to, then, open just the one I need thanks to the dekstop icon.
I even can't drag a desktop from Nautilus and drop it on the desktop to make a link to it. DnD MOVEs the folder ! (I tried that on Mdk8.1 out of the box)
Most of the MIME-Types aren't well defined and it's very difficult to make associations (I mean more than 2 clicks for an association is way too much).
Those 3 things definitely make GNOME unuseable for me at daily work (I'm a webmaster). Don't tell I'm a troll because I really like GNOME. I find it pretty, I find it fast but I just really can't use it.
I think the problem with KDE (for me) is that the default look is nice but not really original: it looks like windows 2000 with a Microsoft Plus theme if you see what I mean. Of course, I exagerate but when I use GNOME (mainly at home, where I only listen to MP3s, surf using Mozilla and watch DVDs) or WindowMaker, I feel like I'm using something original.
KDE just doesn't need to look like MacOS X or WinXP, it just needs to be visually original but keep a classic feel (CTRL-C / CTRL-V, konqueror ala MSIE etc...).
I repeat, I don't think that KDE isn't pretty. The default theme is an enhanced version of Windows 2000 look and, with High Performance Liquid, you'll get Mac OS X. BUT there is no nice and original theme for KDE to replace the default one.
Sorry if I've said bullshit about GNOME but I just say what I noticed using GNOME on Mandrake 8.1 .I can't say if it's Mandrake's fault or GNOME's one. |
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Re: Desktop look...
by JM on Friday 08/Feb/2002, @10:25
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I personally keep switching back and forth. What I find amusing is the fact I typically end up using KDE more but 90% of the programs I use are built around GNOME because I cannot find ones for KDE that work for me as well.
examples: PAN, GQview, gftp, xchat, glitter, plus a few more.
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Re: Desktop look...
by joschi on Friday 08/Feb/2002, @11:37
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"With Gnome, I can't create a PHP script on my desktop, then, using DND, put it on ftp://login:pass@ftp.mywebsite.com and vice versa."
Absolutely untrue, i just did it.
"I can't pop down ALL my windows in one time to, then, open just the one I need thanks to the dekstop icon."
I'm not aware of an icon to do this, but it is simple to bind a key in sawfish to minimize all windows.
" I even can't drag a desktop from Nautilus and drop it on the desktop to make a link to it. DnD MOVEs the folder ! (I tried that on Mdk8.1 out of the box)"
Shift-drag makes a link, ctrl-drag makes a copy, alt-drag asks you which you want with a menu.
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Re: Desktop look...
by dave on Friday 08/Feb/2002, @13:31
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...and if pressing even one key's too much for you dragging with the middle button also gives you the choice to link/move/copy.
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Re: Desktop look...
by Ian Reinhart Geiser on Friday 08/Feb/2002, @14:50
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what middle button?
what i love about KDE is i can use it with my single button mouse.
-ian reinhart geiser
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Re: Desktop look...
by Chris Conrad on Friday 08/Feb/2002, @15:28
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Does it make you feel good to bash the Gnome project at every opportunity? And, two parent posts above yours explains quite nicely how to move/copy/link using Gnome with one button.
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Re: Desktop look...
by Ian Reinhart Geiser on Friday 08/Feb/2002, @18:19
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yes, the GNOME project is why I develop for KDE ;)
besides gnome never ran correctly on my mac anyway, one more reason to move to kde. i dont have to remove random corefiles from the root directory nightly.
cheers
-ian reinhart geiser
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Re: Desktop look...
by Chris Conrad on Friday 08/Feb/2002, @19:03
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[rantmode on]
I'm glad that is why you develop for KDE. And I'm sure happy to know that the reason you decided to work on it was because Gnome didn't work on your mac. Want to know why I don't work on KDE? Because of attitudes like the one you displayed on this message board.
How come one of the KParts tutorials goes out of it's way to criticize bonobo? If I want to read about bonobo I'll go and do so. I am perfectly capable of making up my own mind about which technology is better.
Why can't someone point out a feature in Gnome that they like without being attacked about it? Are you that insecure that maybe the Gnome project can produce better code then the KDE project that you need to mindlessly bash them? Hey, I know, why not go and send TrustCommerce nasty email now because they think that Gnome apps are more full featured then their KDE equivalents.
[rantmode off]
I come to the dot because I use KDE at work and am interested in seeing what is going on with the project. But if this is the kinda crap I need to put up with whenever Gnome is brought up here, I don't think I'll bother with KDE anymore.
Oh, and I use Gnome on my iBook because KDE just crashes under Mac OS X.
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Re: Desktop look...
by John Q Public on Friday 08/Feb/2002, @23:35
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I know you probably don't care, but one of the main reasons I chose KDE of GNOME was its developers. I went into the GNOME irc channel, and asked some question which I dont remember anymore (97/98 dont remember which year) and no one answered me. So I asked again in like 5min, and then the only person to answer me basically said RTFM. I thought I'd try KDE cause I heard about it in /. I think, so I tried it and something didnt work. I went into the kde channel and someone there answered my question.
I get the same crap in #mozilla. They are all a bunch of jerks. I asked a NS6 question, but I had the same problem with Mozilla.
Everytime I've went into #kde or #kde-users with a question I got an answer. Except if neil or krazykiwi are there. One thing I can say for Neil, he at least seems to know anything about KDE like the back of his hand. Krazikiwi never seems to know what I ask (which is fine), but then she (?) also has a really condencending attitute. If I see her there as the only active person, I just leave.
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Re: Desktop look...
by About Gnome on Saturday 09/Feb/2002, @02:56
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This is a flame and I make no apologies for it.
Gnome started for one reason and one reason only: RMS didn't agree with the KDE developers' interpretation of the GPL wrt the QT library. Gnome was set up with the intention of creating FUD to delay the uptake of the best thing to ever happen to desktop Linux and to bluff and bully the KDE crowd into getting the QT licencing changed.
Yes, you heard it right, Gnome was *deliberately* started to be "bickering, competing and incompatible" and to stop Linux having a single desktop standard if that standard was to be KDE.
The licence issue is *long* in the past. That out of the way, the Gnome crowd should have had to decency to either scrap Gnome completely (as did those working on the Harmony project, which was developing a GPL QT clone) so we could unite behind KDE or keep Gnome going as a low key longer-term hacker R&D project like Enlightenment. But no, we had to keep the ball rolling didn't we.
Why, given the adverse impact this has had on Linux and other target platforms?
NIH syndrome partly; a lot of big egos (many in the US) were beaten to the punch by a bunch of (mainly) German students.
And the fact that it relies on an existing library means that big egos who want to reinvent the universe can't develop their own object library; they have to do something useful.
But the main reason, irony of ironies, is that it is LGPL rather than KDE's GPL; yes folks, the desktop that began as *THE* GNU free desktop now boasts that it is more commercial-friendly. That's why Sun and HP are putting money into it. Guarantees success? Ah, look at CDE...
Gnome is an expensive, deliberately divisive vapourware project that should have been scrapped after the QT licence changes if the principals involved had any sense of decency or any *REAL* committment to free software. It continues because a bunch of pricks can't admit that they were wrong and continue to put their own giant egos ahead of the development of desktop Unix.
Meanwhile KDE continues to release in its usual methodical fashion while Gnome 2 stays as FUD. ("You may think KDE's kewl, but wait till you see Gnome 2!") Pardon me while I puke...
Gnome and the bastards who've hyped this piece of vapourware and tried to sabotage KDE for the last five years can go to Hell! Who needs Microsoft trying to pull the rug from under the free Unix's when you've got this lot! (Yes, that includes RMS, who is responsible for initiating and encouraging this debacle).
To paraphrase the end of RMS's infamous letter of "forgiveness" to the KDE developers: Go KDE!!!
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Re: Desktop look...
by dave on Saturday 09/Feb/2002, @17:15
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The reason it's stayed around is because people use it, like it and develop for it. You find kde better, great, use kde, others find gnome better - for them it i s better to use gnome. It might have started because of licencing issues but now it was never meant to be a clone of kde - just a good desktop.
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Re: Desktop look...
by About Ximian on Saturday 09/Feb/2002, @17:58
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Let us be realistic. It is obvious that Gnome is the desktop war, in Linux. I predict Gnome will live as a replacement for CDE, since Sun wants to force it on its users. Linux and the BSDs will be dominated by KDE. The Gnome team may as well not bother to support anything other than Solaris.
Gnome has some great applications, but as a desktop environment it is poor, and it cannot keep up with the onslaught of KDE releases.
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Re: Desktop look...
by me on Tuesday 12/Feb/2002, @07:12
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It sounds to me that you don't believe anyone actually uses gnome (unless they have a gun pointed at their head). It would be really great to have some real numbers on the proportion of people using each desktop - i know it's quite hard to get statistics like this mainly because (almost) all distributions include both desktops. However most of the people that i have spoken to who have tried ximian gnome after using kde for long periods of time seem very impressed and are enthusiastic about it "better looking and faster than kde". So i just wanted to assure you that some people do actually use and like gnome (and no there isn't a sun/ximian employee behind me forcing me to write this)
I'm not quite sure why you seem to want gnome dead, surely it does you (or kde) no harm.
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Re: Desktop look...
by Ian Reinhart Geiser on Saturday 09/Feb/2002, @08:13
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Have you ever coded bonobo?
It was coded by a bunch of poorly trainted chimps...
The fact of the matter is GNOME is not designed, it is a bunch of ripped off applications pasted together. Their flagship apps are just ripoffs of other projects they where able to hijack. OpenOffice, Mozzila, ESD, the list goes on...
GNOME is just something that happend, KDE on the otherhand has some design.
You strike me as a user, so I will spare you any more details, but after 6 years of software design, you gotta know when something smells like an MFC / Motif ripoff...
Cheers
-ian reinhart geiser
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Re: Desktop look...
by KDE Developer on Saturday 09/Feb/2002, @11:35
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> It was coded by a bunch of poorly trainted chimps...
Please note that Geiseri speaks on his' own behalf and the majority of KDE developers not necessarily share his view and verbalism.
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Re: Desktop look...
by flo. on Monday 11/Feb/2002, @13:38
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...because the gnome/FSF/debian/RMS-lovin trolls did it for years.
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Re: Desktop look...
by someone on Saturday 09/Feb/2002, @07:31
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> I even can't drag a desktop from Nautilus and drop it on the desktop to make a link to it. DnD MOVEs the folder !
Shift Drag.
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