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problem with no javascript
by Andreas Otto on Sunday 02/Mar/2003, @02:17
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Hi,
I use Netscape 4.7.8 un SuSE linux.
The site looks greate with JavScrpt but has a grey background
without JavaScript.
Q: it is possible to get it working without JavaScript ?
( the old site worked without JavaScript too)
mfg
aotto |
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Re: problem with no javascript
by pipesmoker on Sunday 02/Mar/2003, @02:52
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Netscape 4.x only takes care of style sheets if Java Script is enabled, does'nt it?
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Re: problem with no javascript
by Martin on Sunday 02/Mar/2003, @05:58
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Arrgh, Netscape 4.7 without JavaScript??? In 2003???
When there are completely free alternatives?
Very cool! BTW, my KDE 1.0 keeps crashing when I try to start K3b.
Can't there be a separate version for KDE 1.0?
Sorry man, *get a life*!
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Re: problem with no javascript
by Shift on Sunday 02/Mar/2003, @07:54
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Please !!!
Don't use Netscape4.x
This browser is horrible and it doesn't respect the standards. It is a waste of time for webmasters to try to create web pages compatible with it :(
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Re: problem with no javascript
by Jim Dabell on Monday 03/Mar/2003, @02:46
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It's not a waste of time at all. If you @import all your styles, netscape 4.x shouldn't pay any attention to them, which makes it equivelent to a browser without any css support whatsoever. If your sites don't work in non-css browsers, then you are doing something very wrong.
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Re: problem with no javascript
by Christoph Cullmann on Monday 03/Mar/2003, @02:55
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It works without CSS, but if you think you can get a nice colorfull experience without CSS than you are wrong, as that would cause the use of color and font tags which will break any alternate stylesheet ;) It is usable, it is readable, it even works in text browsers (even with layout if they support tables and even with content before navigation if not).
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Re: problem with no javascript
by Jim Dabell on Monday 03/Mar/2003, @03:08
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I was replying to the person who said it was a waste of time to consider netscape 4.x when building a site. I never implied that kde.org was broken in any way without css.
Using things like the <font> element should not break user stylesheets. If they do, then the user-agent is broken. Styling added with presentational html elements and attribute have a low specificity, so anything done in css should automatically override it.
I do, however, think that it's a mistake to build a site with a fairly simple layout using table hacks today. Perhaps it was acceptable a couple of years ago, but browser support has come along very well recently, and imho it really isn't that important to have older browsers have 100% of the experience of recent browsers at the expense of well-coded alternative user-agents.
I also think it's a mistake to develop the site in accordance with IE 6 quirks mode. The xml declaration is redundant, and the only thing it really achieves is to make sure that IE 6 doesn't follow the relevent web standards.
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Re: problem with no javascript
by Shift on Monday 03/Mar/2003, @04:28
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I now the @import tips but it is always a hack.
I consider that Netscape4.x is dead and that you can upgrade with other browsers following w3c standards very easily.
If we continue making site compatible with Netscape4.x and IE3.x then XHTML and CSS will stay a dream but I don't want that.
For me using @import is bad because I can't use alternate stylesheet with this :(
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Re: problem with no javascript
by Jim Dabell on Monday 03/Mar/2003, @05:26
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@import isn't a particularly bad hack, it's valid css. If your server is configured correctly, it's usually a matter of a few bytes the first time you access a site that uses it.
As for making sites compatible with older user-agents, you get this for free by writing valid, meaningful html, and hiding the css. As I said before, if you are relying on css, you are doing something wrong, it's optional for user-agents, there are plenty that will never support css. If you aren't relying on css support, there won't be a problem with older browsers. Okay, so I'm ignoring javascript, but the same argument applies to that as well.
I don't see what precludes alternate stylesheets with @import, unless there is a browser bug I don't know about that affects this combination. Most of my stylesheets get automatically shielded with @import by using a combination of mod_rewrite and a simple php script.
The biggest obstacle to xhtml support on the web is internet explorer, it still doesn't support it. ie6 will be in use for years to come, essentially blocking proper use of xhtml for that timeframe (xhtml as text/html is a hack that only works because no browser implements html properly).
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Re: problem with no javascript
by Christoph Cullmann on Monday 03/Mar/2003, @01:10
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Sorry for your problems with Netscape 4.x, but to fix the color problem for netscape 4 would mean to go away from CSS, as CSS works only with javascript support on in netscape4 (as netscape uses javascript code to do the css stuff internal). We have tried to keep the page as compatible to netscape 4 as the xhtml/css code allows, without breaking the possiblity to use alternate stylesheets. It doesn't look that nice in netscape 4, i am sorry, but more is not possible without breaking the atm clean code which is a no go. Therefor: hope you have not that much problems with the page and netscape and if you can update your browser, real worth the work.
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