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Thanks :)
by Mario on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @19:32
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Also on another note, GNOME 2.4 was just released with many improvements http://www.gnome.org/start/2.4/.
Most improvements are usability, acessibility, and general polish, but there are also quite a few new features.
I am very impressed with GNOME 2.4's usability, now jsut about everything in the stock GNOME is HIG compliant and GNOME has the best documentation available on Linux thanks to SUN which constantly updates it. Come to think of it, GNOME's acessibility features and it's HIG is also thanks to SUN, SUN is pretty much the one responsible behind the great progress in usability, acessibility, documentation etc. that GNOME is making.
I really encourage KDE people to try it, not to switch, but so that we can have an idea of the competition and "borrow" good ideas like they "borrowed" from us, if nothing at least check out the awesome documentation and release notes, the best I've seen so far. |
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Re: Thanks :)
by Sho on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @19:38
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Sometimes I really wonder about your posts, Mario. You show up quite often when there's an important KDE announcement, like to make sure that someone reminds the readers that there's Gnome, too. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with what you're saying, in fact, I think Gnome makes a fine desktop and 2.4 is the best release yet - but I do doubt your motives. That I do. Anyway, let's not turn this into an argument.
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Re: Thanks :)
by NewMandrakeUser on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @20:29
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I tried it today. To me, GNOME is a few years behind KDE. Literally. I am an ex GNOME user, but at some point (KDE 2.* series) the difference in favour of KDE became too big and switched. Anyways, nice trolling.
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Re: Thanks :)
by Mario on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @21:00
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The two biggest, most popular and coolest Linux DE's release new versions after months of preparation on the same day! How could I not post about it!
I believe competition is healthy and that both projects can learna lot from each other, GNOME has some clear advantages to KDE in usability, acessibility and documentation, I wanted KDE contributors to know so that they could check it out and maybe help KDE catch up.
Overall, I think KDE is better than GNOME, and it is the desktop I use, but that does not mean I don't like GNOME or have some kind of rule that I can only say Pro KDE stuff.
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Re: Thanks :)
by ac on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @21:20
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Did you post and advertize KDE on the GNOME site?
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Re: Thanks :)
by fault on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @21:54
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He wasn't advertising GNOME at all. Pointing out that usability and accessibility is better in GNOME wasn't bad either. Might be a little offtopic, but not completely unexpected on this site. If you think that it is unexpected, you're a little bit naive :-)!
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Re: Thanks :)
by ac on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @22:26
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Uh-huh. And does he point out all that is better in KDE on the GNOME site, complete with URLs to KDE.org?
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Re: Thanks :)
by fault on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @22:45
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Was a brand new stable release of KDE just released? No.. thank you very much.
Quit your hating, nothing wrong with pointing out good things in other environments.
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Re: Thanks :)
by Mario on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @23:03
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Yes, I did post KDE "advetisements" on gnomedesktop.org sometimes, for example
"Their new panel, movement of special menu applets, mini calendar for clock, SVG, post it notes desktop applet, have been in KDE for a while now. "
Not, quite as often, but only because I care about KDE more and I am more interested that people know it's weak spots, the first step to resolving a problem than if GNOME knows how KDE is better in this and this. I want KDE to continue being the #1 linux desktop.
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Re: Thanks :)
by ac on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @23:06
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Ok good. :)
And I wasn't hating anyone despite fault's lies and slander!
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Slander?
by Henry on Thursday 11/Sep/2003, @21:20
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Slander? That's non-sense.
In writing it's called libel.
Okay, I stole that from Spider-man.
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Re: Thanks :)
by anon on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @21:52
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Are you sure GNOME has better documentation than KDE? There are a number of apps in GNOME that have extremely outdated documentation.. even Nautilus in 2.4rc1 does.
Sadly, docs in KDE are also very outdated. Both Doc projects are severely understaffed and is something non-developers can work on! :)
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Re: Thanks :)
by Anonymous on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @22:02
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GNOME's User's Guide, Admin Guide and Accessibility Guide are very professional.
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Re: Thanks :)
by John Hughes on Thursday 11/Sep/2003, @16:47
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That's because they were written by Sun's proffessionally trained and (assumingly) well payed documentation writers.
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KDE's usability the best
by Olof on Friday 12/Sep/2003, @00:52
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The usability in KDE is _at least_ as good as in Gnome. You just have to make the sufficient settings. In this way, KDE is more flexible, has more options, and with the correct settings _will_ become more usable than Gnome.
This is a fact because usability can only be measured in a given work context, thus the possibility to adopt to that context is essential. Adopting is possible when flexibility is high. Simply removing features decreases flexibility and does not help increase usability.
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Re: KDE's usability the best
by Olof on Friday 12/Sep/2003, @00:56
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I'll reply to myself here. Just to add an important point.
Usability _does not_ come right out of the box. It doesn't matter if big software companies wants us to believe so. It just doesn't work that way.
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Re: KDE's usability the best
by Jeff Johnson on Friday 12/Sep/2003, @05:10
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That depends on the user. Many users do not even try to change the default configuration. For them easy-to-use and simple defaults are most important point, and they are also Gnome's main target group.
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Re: KDE's usability the best
by Alex on Friday 12/Sep/2003, @06:01
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What is the "default configuration"?
Is it what the gnome team has in their packages? No.
Is it what a distribution includes? No.
Is it what comes installed, set and configured as part of a product and/or system? Yes.
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Re: KDE's usability the best
by Jeff Johnson on Friday 12/Sep/2003, @13:37
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Obviously depends on where you get your system from. But yes, for home users and all people who try out KDE for the first time, either the KDE or the distributions defaults are essential for their first impression of KDE. And if they don't bother to reconfigure, also for their last.
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Re: KDE's usability the best
by Olof on Saturday 13/Sep/2003, @00:20
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> either the KDE or the distributions defaults are essential
You assume that the one who sets up a system at a workplace actually uses the defaults that these groups have "chosen". For home desktop users this will only be true if they buy a distribution separately and installs it. I argue, that in other cases, the ability to change (=flexibility) will decide how near you can come to the optimal usability for a user.
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Re: Thanks :)
by Anonymous on Wednesday 10/Sep/2003, @21:38
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I agree that GNOME has its strongest points in accessibility, documentation and usability. Those are AFAIK the areas where SUN is most heavily involved by throwing in the most man power.
Usability is a topic where KDE is slowly but constantly improving (as man/women, who do the actual work after discussion, time permits). Accessibility is also on the focus with the new package kdeaccessibility and I have high hopes in the improved accessibility framework of the upcoming Qt 4.0. Finally documentation: This is where only you, the English-capable KDE users, can really help: http://i18n.kde.org/doc/gettingstarted.php
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Re: Thanks :)
by Nobody on Thursday 11/Sep/2003, @01:46
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Could there be some sort of gail replacement within the kde (kail? ;-) to get the same accessibilities as gnome to be able to integrate atk and at-spi without any dependencies with glib/gtk+?
What if that framework could be introduced through the freedesktop.org to the Qt-4.0?
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Re: Thanks :)
by Daniel Molkentin on Thursday 11/Sep/2003, @02:21
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ATK integration is work-in-progress for Qt 4.0, see the report about Qt 4.0.
Cheers,
Daniel
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Re: Thanks :)
by Philippe Fremy on Thursday 11/Sep/2003, @02:43
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<< GNOME is HIG compliant >>
So much fuss about this. KDE has been compliant to his HIG from the very beginning and has been a lot better to comply with it than Gnome ever was.
So Gnome finally reaching a level that KDE always had. I am not impressed.
Things like ATK are more interesting.
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Re: Thanks :)
by Chris Spencer on Thursday 11/Sep/2003, @10:46
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Assuming I actually believe your motives are genuine, I still don't agree. Not to start an anti-gnome war or anything, but every post I've ever made or read about KDE or something "non-GNOME" on gnomedestkop.org has been removed*, so I'm not exactly estatic to read about GNOME on a KDE web forum. If the avergage person used or cared about GNOME, then they would visit their webpage anyways. So your "Spreading the Word" posts are rather pointless.
*After emailing the moderator, he informed me that he's only removed 3 posts in his time of managing the forum. He told me that they're not being removed, but that some GNOME zealot(s) moderated them as trolling, and the default threashold of the forum is set to 1. So basically, moderating to 0 has the same effect of deleting a post.
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GNOME is outdated stuff
by Ruediger Knoerig on Thursday 11/Sep/2003, @14:17
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They're soo behind in their technology so there's no wonder why the german, chinese and japanese government have choosen KDE and only KDE as the base for their open source migration. No working application communication protocol (their CORBA-based stuff is simply a mess...), a stone-aged widged set (compared to KDE & Qt), incoherent user interfaces of the programs and so on. Do you know why they're praising HIG (Hide Incoherent GUI-Stuff)? 'cause they cannot build on a mighty framework which leads to consistency by itself.
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