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Re: Need more concentration on wysiwyg and...
by Nick Mailer on Monday 01/Dec/2003, @08:54
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> modperl
Quite! Not all of us are at all enamoured with PHP. Integration with one or more of the perl templating systems would be highly appreciated. I'd be happy to help, if I can (on the perl side rather than the C++ side :-) |
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Re: Need more concentration on wysiwyg and...
by anon on Monday 01/Dec/2003, @18:25
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Well, Nick,
Glad to hear that you'd be happy to help. Quanta+ can always use more developers...
Get on the mailing list, by emailing the developers:
Eric Laffoon <sequitur@kde.org>
and request to get on this list:
Quanta users list <quanta@mail.kde.org>
Or do it properly:
http://quanta.sourceforge.net/main1.php?actfile=develop
https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/quanta
But you should check the list archives (if it is available) for your ideas (with help of course). And take a look at what is being done/planned prior to offering ideas, as things have gotten a bit hot with someone giving a wish list and not knowing that it was already done/couldn't be done/wouldn't be done.
But modPerl is definitely something to be asking about, especially if you can help (they can use help just for testing cvs releases).
wysiwyg is being worked on, just not as fast as some would like, and may not work like dreamweaver from what I'm seeing.
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Re: Need more concentration on wysiwyg and...
by Eric Laffoon on Monday 01/Dec/2003, @20:07
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Well put about helping out, except that we have a developer list too which is where someone helping would be. I have had someone express interest in doing some perl work, but it's tough keeping up with who said what when you have to search for who didn't follow up. Perl support can be added by XML. I don't care what you like, if somebody can't put in a few hours of XML I can't have everybody stop everything and spend the next several months writing support for numerous languages and dialects they don't use. That's why we made it so that people who don't know C++ can extend it. If you were paying for Quanta we could just hire someone to do it, but this is community developed software. So one person from the community using a language needs to step up. We had about 5 people volunteer for ColdFusion and we have CF support now. Some ColdFusion developers "get it" and now they have support. Why not perl developers? Open invite guys. You can do a little XML to get a free tool that does what you want, right? I've also had half a dozen requests for JSP. I've asked each of them to contribute a few hours. Guess how many were willing to do that?
As far as VPL being like Dreamweaver or how fast it's going... it's never fast enough, but as I said elsewhere it'sd difficult to say where the convergence of several factors will put it at release. Most likely it will not be as feature rich at 3.2, or at least not as we would want. I don't use Dreamweaver or why would I build Quanta. As I also mentioned here, it will be several months into 2004 that it begins to mature and become more enjoyable and powerful. However here are two things it will do right now that I think are worth noting...
1) It will write DTD compliant markup
2) It will only make changes on the DOM node you edit when you open a document and it will not shuffle the thing without your permission.
The BE release line will give us the ability to bring in improvements to VPL in a timely fashion. Minor point releases to 3.2 will have string freeze limitations on the user interface so that will limit what we can do there.
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Re: Need more concentration on wysiwyg and...
by anon on Monday 01/Dec/2003, @23:58
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I didn't mention the developer list as I didn't want to overload the post and did want him to get in contact with you easily instead of having to do the legwork himself (and risk the posibility that another project may distract him along the way ;o)
I was sure that you would put him on the developer list if the interest was there on your part.
Awaiting wysiwyg with bated breath.
The BE release sounds like you're taking on too much/spreading development thin. You don't have enough people testing (or developers) prior to BE coming out (as posted on the list), yet it looks like you want to release faster than kde releases...so now there are two versions? Or are there two versions? It is more than stable and cvs, right?
That's just my observation, which from the outside is quite possibly wrong.
But you are severely underestimating wysiwyg. While the candidates who are more likely to use wysiwyg won't bring you more developers, it will bring more observers, fans, and buzz. And press. And this will very likely bring more developers.
Just another observation.
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Re: Need more concentration on wysiwyg and...
by Eric Laffoon on Tuesday 02/Dec/2003, @11:34
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> The BE release sounds like you're taking on too much/spreading development thin. You don't have enough people testing (or developers) prior to BE coming out (as posted on the list),
Okay, by this rational we've always been too thin and are thicker now than ever. ;-) We have more people developing on more things, more people per feature and substantially more people testing. Many people on our user list are running CVS and helping us a great deal by finding bugs, for which I am very thankful. The point I make where you might get the idea we are thin is how much we do with so few people. We should have more developers in a perfect world, but it isn't perfect. Because we've always had to deal with this we decided on a tactical approach that would make Quanta user extensible, but so many people are used to a "consumer" mentality that the community aspect has not taken hold yet on over 99% of users WRT Quanta and testing, developing or donating.
Our approach is that any substantial area of Quanta becomes a sub-project and gets it's own leader. Chris does XML and shares Docs with Fab, Nicolas does VPL, Marc does Kommander, Luciano does CSS and other people are doing various tasks that could move about. Andras does the parser and main project as well as fill in on whatever else needs done and so far, just directing and interfacing along with everything else, I do a very limited amount of coding. I plan to take a couple weeks "coding vacation" later this month to get more proficient prior to taking on some larger design projects.
> yet it looks like you want to release faster than kde releases...so now there are two versions? Or are there two versions? It is more than stable and cvs, right?
BE is a development version. This means a BE release will be a branch off of HEAD prior to KDE 3.2 final and from HEAD after. In all cases it will be a snapshot where we have taken several weeks of testing and withheld destabilizing commits so that it should be pretty stable and usable. It will have more functionality than prior releases but some features may be incomplete. It will be close to release stability but with some obvious bugs that should not interfere with most people's use.
As I said in our story, the decision to begin an external release schedule had to do with the rate which various tasks were reaching maturity. Our release schedule for some features is a year, but they don't start always with KDE's schedule. Other features are 1-3 months. Quanta has become a large complex application and note that Kdevelop and Koffice have not been able to make KDE release schedules. We're proud to be a part of the official release package, but a lot of what we wanted to get into 3.2 will be ready first quarter of 2004. No matter what anyone says statistical probabilities place 3.3 a year out. Going to a dual release schedule seems imperative. We are also seeing a good number of new developer interest emails and people learning Qt/KDE programming wanting to be part of our project. We hope they all become active developers and will do all we can to help them. So it's all good.
> But you are severely underestimating wysiwyg. While the candidates who are more likely to use wysiwyg won't bring you more developers, it will bring more observers, fans, and buzz. And press. And this will very likely bring more developers.
Well I don't know who you are, but it appears you're operating at a disadvantage of not having discussed my thoughts on the matter with me. ;-) Once we have reached a level that I believe we are a serious contender for professional development you can be sure that I will be promoting Quanta on KDE to the mainstream press, if they don't get to me first. BTW visual design is actually only one of three critical components that will cause this buzz. ;-)
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