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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by gerd on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @09:35
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troll!
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by cm on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @10:41
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Sorry, I don't understand your calling the OP a troll at all. Please explain.
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by David on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @16:10
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Erm, it's not a troll. He's just telling us that this is updated and so all the rubbish we've had is false.
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by anonymous coward on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @10:47
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This is good. However, they have clearly stated before that most of their engineering efforts go to Evolution and Gnome - so what we really have here is a company with no strategy. It's never been a good (final) strategy to decide 'let's make it all!', and sooner or later this will change.
This was obvious though - as most of us are completely unable (not just reluctant) to fundamentally alter our views, i think it would have been unreasonable to ask Miguel & the gang to start thinking in KDE. So when it comes to SUSE, i guess you just have to take what you can from these guys - that is, GNOME work. Let's hope that it will mean a *finally* working GNOME environment for SUSE users as well. I've yet to see that miracle..
This really leads me to another point about GNOME - i don't concider it as a free (as in beer) desktop anymore, in any way. What ever is downloadable from gnome.org is of alpha/beta quality - you really need the distributor (that charges you conciderable amounts of money) to turn it to a decent product. This is not to say KDE is perfect either, but conciderably better.
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by ac on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @11:38
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Only Ximian has been making FUD. Where is Ximian now? Go look for yourself at how sad http://www.ximian.com/ is. Look at the Ximian Desktop Code Log for an even better glimpse at just how dismantled the Ximian strategy is now http://codeblogs.ximian.com/blogs/desktop/.
SUSE in contrast has hired people to improve the KDE desktop such as OOo KDE integration. It looks like Kopete and Kontact also have Novell Groupwise support although I don't know how that happened whether the fantastic KDE developers or SUSE/Novell's help.
For GNOME not being free, you can order Ubuntu for free and no money at all to get the CD. Contrast this to KDE where it's a much bigger pain and if you want a CD you have to pay or download and burn yourself.
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by Anonymous on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @17:13
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Suse is searching a KDE developer for Groupwise integration.
http://www.suse.de/de/company/suse/jobs/suse_pbu/developer_kde.html
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Ummm ?? Novell???
by Jason Keirstead on Monday 25/Oct/2004, @09:46
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You talk about Ximian and SuSE like they are different companies.
Novell owns them both, and down the road they will likely be merged into novell Linux.
Also, Novell did indeed fund the Groupwize support in both Kopete/Kontact *and* Evolution/Gaim.
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by another ac on Tuesday 26/Oct/2004, @03:38
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> For GNOME not being free, you can order Ubuntu for free and no money at all to get the CD. Contrast this to KDE where it's a much bigger pain and if you want a CD you have to pay or download and burn yourself.
Kalyxo project is working on something similar only with KDE, but they're not there yet. They need all the help they can get.
http://www.kalyxo.org/
Note: I'm not affiliated with Kalyxo.
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by KDE User on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @13:37
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> GNOME - i don't concider it as a free (as in beer) desktop anymore, in any way
Could this have something to do with the LGPL license? As far as I am concerned, the GPL seems cleverly designed, it protects the open source community.
With LGPL:d toolkits, it just seems to easy to take the big cake out of the open-source, and then outperform the same with economic muscles. They can eat the cake and still have it.
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by Birdy on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @14:27
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"However, they have clearly stated before that most of their engineering efforts go to Evolution and Gnome"
I never heard something like this before. And I do not belive this is true. Novell bought Ximian because of RedCarpet and Mono. And SuSE did a lot of KDE support recently. So I think your statement is just bad press from some GNOME supporters.
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by Anonymous on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @17:19
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>>"However, they have clearly stated before that most of their engineering
>>efforts go to Evolution and Gnome"
>I never heard something like this before.
"Novell's desktop software employs the GNOME user interface and software, but it will also include that of rival KDE, McLellan said. However, Novell's integration work is happening only with the GNOME applications, she said."
http://news.com.com/Novell+to+release+enhanced+Linux+in+fall/2100-7344_3-5300555.html?tag=nefd.top
It was just bad press from the Ximian camp of Novell. These guys should really talk less and code more.. ;-)
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by Datschge on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @18:33
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Googling for "Christine McLellan" who supposedly made the above quoted statement indeed reveals that she's a former Ximian member...
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by anon on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @22:56
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http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1679393,00.asp
Quote: "Evolution is where we're putting our engineering efforts,"
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by foo on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @23:53
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> "Evolution is where we're putting our engineering efforts,"
This is kinda funny. They're helping their biggest competitor ( redhat ) just where they're most vulnerable.
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by ac on Monday 25/Oct/2004, @08:44
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Another quote from the same article: "The Novell Linux Desktop, though, will not include Evolution 2, and instead will ship with Novell's Connector for Microsoft Exchange Server, letting early adopters use it with Microsoft Corp.'s Exchange mail servers." Makes sense... *scratches head
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by anonymous coward on Monday 25/Oct/2004, @00:13
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Have to reply to myself. Serious tip for the Linux distributions: get a real consistent desktop strategy, and get it *now*. After that decision exists, please *all* (in your company) stand behind that decision for more than a month. How could the customers believe in your products, if you don't yourself?
It seems i'm not the only one thinking like this;
http://linuxtoday.com/it_management/2004102201826OPDT
"No one in the commercial distro firms, it seems, knows what to do with the Linux desktop. They promote it, they laud it, but they don't take the hard steps to really get it out there. "
And if it was for SUSE that has been building popularity slowly but steadily, they couldn't possibly be that stupid to forget their current customer base, could they? Let alone the fact that KDE is getting awfully close to being incredible product..
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by Derek Kite on Monday 25/Oct/2004, @07:44
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And make what decision? Distributions can only work with what the community produces.
Are we asking for a top-down marketplace? I'm not. There is a big one ready to go in Windows, where you wait for the top to lead or follow. The natural monopoly because there is room for only one vendor. One vendor who will still be in business in 4 years.
I like the free marketplace that has developed around free software. It isn't ordered, or even doesn't make sense, but there is opportunity for everyone. The most important metric isn't market share, but contributor share.
Derek
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by David on Sunday 24/Oct/2004, @16:09
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Yer. It was all bollocks, and bollocks we've had consistently for several years from you know who. The fact is that KDE is the primary desktop in Suse's desktop product and wee'll see what comes of NLD when it's released - i.e. both Gnome and KDE.
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Re: OT: Novell Linux Desktop update
by gerd on Monday 25/Oct/2004, @04:44
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The question is if Ximian should focus on Mono integration to KDe rather than evolution. As Suse ships KDE development support for Evolution means support for RedHat and other Gnome lockin distros. So I don't see a reason why Novell shall support Evolution.
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KDE won't go away ... read more ...
by ac on Wednesday 27/Oct/2004, @01:22
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Well the first question you should ask is who is Novell ? A company that has done what to Linux so far ? Besides that they bought Ximian and SuSE what exactly did they do ?
But anyways KDE is not going away regardless if Novell decides to go with GNOME and KDE is even more than just Evolution or some Groupwise or Mono stuff. We shouldn't ignore all the tools that people have written that makes daily life easier on KDE. I was now close up to start naming tools but this would be pointless. Most of the flames and rants or 'competition attitude' is done by people who prefer the one over the other rather than being able to explain in technical sentences why they prefer the one over the other. Most people I met so far (who mostly are the hardliners of defending their Desktop) are people who regulary count stuff like XChat, Gaim, Gimp and so on but a true Desktop shouldn't be limited on a handfull of meaningless applications. Applications that are good for one are useless for the other users. There are people like graphicans who need GIMP and there are other people who urgently need KStars, KLogo, Umbrello, Kivio do get their job done.
If we look over to the multitudinousness of what KDE has to offer an applications covering nearly every area of science, education, technics, physics, mechanics, biology, school, business then comparing all the tools offered or available for GNOME we then can easily say who has his nose infront.
You can't limit a Desktop on fancy icons or just because GTK is free or because it's written in C. No you need to value every aspect of a good Desktop this includes the Desktop itself, the architecture beneath it, the availability of third party applications that cover the needs of the users.
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If linux survives against windows....
by Ask on Wednesday 27/Oct/2004, @07:36
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Exactly. If linux has made its presence felt
in the face of killing strategy by Microsoft,
so will KDE regardless of what Novell or SUSE
does. KDE had a big role to play in displacing
Microsoft from many a machines and rolling in
Mandrake and SUSE, and if they ditch KDE only
they will suffer. It is always quality that
matters. I see many places where konquerer
is now mentioned as a quality we browser, whereas
earlier people only knew or talked about
mozilla/firebird in the open source world.
ASk
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