Small incongruity on the Kontact website

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Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Charles de Miramon on Wednesday 10/Nov/2004, @02:24

On http://kontact.org/groupwareservers.php, I don't think that Kollab has a
'vital community' but more a 'lively community it is a confusuion between Lebenskraftig and Lebsensnodwendig.

What is the status of versioning in the webdav Kio ? With a Webddav server, it looks like that a poor man Sharepoint portal could be easily created for KDE.

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Tycho Brahe on Wednesday 10/Nov/2004, @08:58

Vital community sounds fine to me, as a speaker of American English....

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by eean on Wednesday 10/Nov/2004, @09:25

In the context, lively would make more sense to me, another follower of en_US.

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by jameth on Wednesday 10/Nov/2004, @15:19

Vital makes sense, but can be interpreted in two wildly different ways, both of which could make sense. Vital could mean the community is active or it could mean that the community is essential, either of which could make sense in one way or another. By contrast, lively only means the first, making it a more pointed and reliable term (assuming that the second meaning was not what was meant).

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Helge Hess on Wednesday 10/Nov/2004, @17:32

You can read/write with the WebDAV KIO to the OGo document store. Versioning needs to be controlled in the web interface though. I'm not sure whether versioning can be properly done at such a low level - AFAIK in SharePoint the versioning is also done at application plugin level (using Office plugins) and is not supported in WebFolders.

Something which would be cool (and probably not very difficult) for the WebDAV slave is the ability to maintain a local cache of the server documents similiar to Apple iDisk - using the same (standard!) mechanism described in the RFC and implemented by the Kontact resource.

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Joachim Werner on Thursday 11/Nov/2004, @04:18

I think it would be quite possible to integrate locking, setting attributes and versioning into Konqueror and the standard file dialig without having to use a special application plugin.

This could be done for WebDAV in general as well as for Subversion. And Cervisia is a good example how one could even integrate diffing and more advanced versioning commands directly into the file management view.

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Helge Hess on Thursday 11/Nov/2004, @04:40

Sounds cool! If someone wants to work on such a file management extension for OpenGroupware.org, let me know :-) I would be pleased to discuss that.

BTW: while WebDAV as a V in its name, it does not support versioning itself. There is an extension for WebDAV which does that, but I don't think it is widely implemented by servers (even if the provide a versioned document store).

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Joachim Werner on Thursday 11/Nov/2004, @06:00

I'm aware that plain WebDAV only supports locking, no versioning. But your post implied that OpenGroupware.org supports some sort of versioning, so I mentioned it ;-).

Subversion actually implements (a subset of) the DeltaV versioning extension for WebDAV.

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Helge Hess on Thursday 11/Nov/2004, @07:54

Yes, OGo has a "document storage" plugin system somewhat comparable to KIO, you can find some info on it over here:
http://www.opengroupware.org/en/devs/docs/snippets/DocumentAPI/DocStorage.html

Besides a simplistic filesystem storage OGo currently provides a RDBMS based one which has fast meta data, ACLs and a simple versioning system.
As mentioned OGo currently does not support the WebDAV version extension mostly due to the lack of clients - if KDE would support that, it might be worth consideration.

Maybe this is really getting off-topic, but does Svn really use a strict subset of RFC 3253? I had the impression that some concepts are shared but that Svn has its own extensions to WebDAV making it useless as a basis to start a standards implementation.

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Joachim Werner on Thursday 11/Nov/2004, @17:18

http://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.0/apcs02.html says it all:

"So how 'compatible' is Subversion with other DeltaV software? In two words: not very."

But there is some common ground. Basically you can use Subversion via pure WebDAV if you can live with automatically generated checkin messages. If one only uses WebDAV clients (which is an option for a repository that is only used for shared document storage) even locking can be made to work.

I wouldn't say that Subversion can be a reference server for a fully DeltaV-compliant versioned document backend, but I think that it would be quite possible to write a configurable KDE extension as the basis for both a Subversion-aware and a fully DeltaV-compliant frontend.

I know that I'm getting more and more off topic, but an interesting question would be how well the different backend approaches (Subversion with its two backend implementations, OpenGroupware's two implementations, etc.) perform. If used as a document storage for a department or SOHO network such a backend should have throughputs that come close to NFS or SMB, at least for retrieving the most current version of the stored documents ...

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Jonathan C. Dietrich on Thursday 11/Nov/2004, @04:45

I can't speak as to whether the WebDAV KIO is a compliant client, nor if OGo document store implements a compliant server, but the WebDAV protocol can handle locking and versioning.

WebDAV stands for "Web-based Distributed Authoring and Versioning" http://webdav.org/ (see the RFC at http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2518.txt )

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Helge Hess on Thursday 11/Nov/2004, @05:10

While the name suggest that, WebDAV (RFC 2518) does *not* implement any operation related to versioning (point to the section inside the spec ;-).
It does support locking, both optimistic (etags as used in the Kontact resource) as well as pessimistic (LOCK HTTP method).

Versioning is added by RFC 3253 (Versioning Extensions to WebDAV):
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3253.txt

RFC 3253 is not implemented by OGo, and I don't know any client nor server which implements it (Xythos maybe?) Same goes for WebDAV access control (RFC 3744).

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Charles de Miramon on Thursday 11/Nov/2004, @05:41

I think I saw on a mailing list that somebody had started implementing RFC 3253 for the KDE webdav KIO but I don't know if it is finished.

Adding integrated versioning capacity to KDE file operation be it for a local Reiser4 filesystem (maybe RFC 3253 could be implemented as a Reiser4 plugin) or a Webdav server like OGo would be a "killing" feature alonside with a better support for metadata.

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Christian Loose on Thursday 11/Nov/2004, @07:07

You mean kdenonbeta/deltav? (http://webcvs.kde.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/kdenonbeta/deltav/)

Unfortunately it hasn't been touch since almost two years.

Christian

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Re: Small incongruity on the Kontact website
by Charles de Miramon on Thursday 11/Nov/2004, @07:52

Ah, it is sad but, in a way, quite normal. If most WebDaV servers don't support the versioning addition,it is hard to create a community to develop a client and vice-versa. The classical chicken and egg problem.

What are your plan Christian for Cervisia ? Could it be possible to extract from it a light universal versioning client targeted to regular office workers ?

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