and Jabber ?

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and Jabber ?
by GML on Saturday 21/May/2005, @06:52

Thanks very much for your work on Kopete, but it's very important that jabber support must be ameliorate.
With proprietary protocols, we aren't sure that Kopete works all the time (for example, with the changes in msn login, the stable kopete version don't work)
Most Internet protocols are open, why with the IM is different ?
The Free Software must be promove open protocols :-)
Open Office and Koffice promove Open Document format, why the IM apps don't promove Jabber protocol ?
I see that kopete uses now libiris (a library from psi developpers), kopete developpers helps psi developpers to maintain this librairy ?
While a client jabber doesn't have same functions that msn messenger, migration on jabber are difficult.

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Re: and Jabber ?
by Pat on Saturday 21/May/2005, @07:53

Looks like someone wasn't paying much attention during his English class.

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Re: and Jabber ?
by Carsten Niehaus on Saturday 21/May/2005, @07:56

I don't use Jabber because
a) I somehow never figured out how to use it
b) ICQ always worked for me
c) all my friends only use ICQ

Why should I use Jabber? If you give me a good reason I might even use it but as of now I have no reason to use it...

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Re: and Jabber ?
by Pat on Saturday 21/May/2005, @08:08

I think what he meant was that we should use it because it's FLOSS (free libre open source softawre).
The problem is that unlike operating system, DEs, mail clients etc... You need your friends to be using the same IM protocol. So using Jabber can be useless if you don't know anybody willing to switch

In a perfect world, all IM clients would be using the same protocol just like with other internet applications http, smtp,imap etc). Unfortunately it seems like the big ones (MS,AOL,Yahoo!) never really understood the way internet works or rather they did understand but never wanted it this way :-(

If it was up to MS we would all have to use Outlook (or some outlook clone using reverse engineered outlook private protocol) to get our mail :)

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Re: and Jabber ?
by Carsten Niehaus on Saturday 21/May/2005, @11:01

I totally agree that all should switch to Jabber as it is free and of course as it could be the RFC which defines a standard just like mails are based on RFC and so on.
But you say there is no Jabber->ICQ-Bridge or something so that I would use Jabber but my friend could still see me somehow? That way *I* would get the free thing but don't have any regressions.

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Re: and Jabber ?
by Pat on Saturday 21/May/2005, @13:32

>>But you say there is no Jabber->ICQ-Bridge or something so that I would use Jabber but my friend could still see me somehow? That way *I* would get the free thing but don't have any regressions.

Yes there are, well sort of. These are called gateaways. The problem is that you still need an ICQ number to use it. here is how you can do it:

1)create a jabber account with kopete, chose a server such as jabber-hispano.org that propose such services
2)get online
3)right click on your jabber account icon and then click Services... in the context menu
4)click on the button "Query server"
5)double click on Transporte ICQ and enter your number and pass

that should be it

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Re: and Jabber ?
by tigloo on Sunday 22/May/2005, @04:09

Most servers allow subscriptions to their transports from foreign servers, so you can have your Jabber account for example on jabber.org and use the transport at amessage.de or jabber-hispano.org.

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Re: and Jabber ?
by Joergen Ramskov on Sunday 22/May/2005, @04:57

That's how I use it, I have friends on both ICQ and MSN which I chat with through the gateways on jabbernet.dk. Been using it for quite a while and it's been very stable.

I use Psi instead of Kopete though. So far, it just fits me better than Kopete. I can't really remember why, but I think one of the things were the logging functionality in Psi.

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Re: and Jabber ?
by ste on Sunday 22/May/2005, @05:19

Others did already answer, I will try to give you some other reasons to switch:

- Jabber is already an IETF protocol with official RFCs; look here http://www.jabber.org/protocol/ and here http://www.xmpp.org/
- since jabber is an open protocol it works just like email [on the server side]: everyone can set up its own servers [http://www.jabber.org/network/], with proprietary protocols all your packets are going through AIM/MSN/Yahoo servers and you really don't know what's happening and what they do with your msgs....
- you can setup a private/secure network with friends using SSL
- Apple now supports jabber in his client apps [iChat] and in his server ... more jabber users are coming...

there are more reasons of course... ;-)

ciao

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Re: and Jabber ?
by tigloo on Saturday 21/May/2005, @10:32

There is Jabber support in Kopete. It's not as complete as in Psi, but it should satisfy your everyday needs.

For those wanting to use other protocols, Jabber integrates all other protocols by providing transports that relay messages between Jabber and for example ICQ or MSN. You don't even need to have an account on the server providing the transport. Unfortunately, Kopete's support of transports is still very basic but we're working on that.

As for Iris, yes, it is Psi's backend library. We have always shared the backend with Psi and they're very friendly towards Kopete. Iris is a very mature and complete library (Psi is one of the best Jabber clients around) and we benefit a lot from the cooperation.

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Re: and Jabber ?
by Mark Hannessen on Sunday 22/May/2005, @03:09

I tried building a jabber server with an msn and icq backend.
and actually got it running after some experimenting.
but the contactlist names imported by the transport looked real ugly.
in my memory it looked something like user%domain@jabberserver.com
I wasn't able to find out how to get it to display it by nickname.
that that is where I largely stopped using jabber.

another feature I greatly missed is the feature that allows you to see when another person is typing. I somehow seemed to got addicted to that...

webcam and voice support sure are things that would be really nice to have too, but since no IM under linux supports that at all I am not gonne bitch about that. I don't think that should be routed through the jabber server anyway, but it would be nice to have a jabber client that would support an easy way to get an video/voice link between jabber contacts.

all in all I think that jabber is a very neat solution.
it just isn't entirely there yet.

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Re: and Jabber ?
by tigloo on Sunday 22/May/2005, @04:05

I don't use the MSN transport but you can always rename the contacts. Most clients (as well as Kopete) automatically suggest an appropriate nickname, so you don't even have to do it yourself.

Typing notifications are supported by Jabber.

Voice and video chat are not implemented in Jabber yet. An attempt has been made but work on the protocol has been suspended for the moment. Eventually Kopete will have a solution for this.

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