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Re: Good to hear
by Segedunum on Tuesday 08/Nov/2005, @10:27
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I wouldn't go so far as to say that - I've just been pointing out what I believe to be common sense. Believe me, I'm not just sticking up for KDE for the sake of it. As far as I'm concerned KDE is an economically viable desktop environment that is more than capable of making it in the world. Novell's new COO Ron Hovsepian likes cost effectiveness and viability as well, and trust me, this guy is not going to get taken for a ride. KDE as an open source desktop, a set of applications, a development framework and support from a company like Trolltech just makes perfect sense. Doing all of that stuff takes a lot of hard work, and KDE is just economically viable as I see it, plain and simple. It's not perfect, but fundamentally it is more than good enough to overcome any obstacles and to push on with new levels of innovation, thinking and technology. Failure of open source desktops == failure of KDE and nothing else.
People then make what they will of those comments, which is usually a lot of the normal crap that makes little sense. You'd have though that after five years of consistent bollocks about KDE, and lies about what other people are doing (or not doing) you would have thought things would have changed - but no.
It's great to hear some coherent marketing happening for KDE, because basically, KDE isn't going to fall short of peoples' expectations. Most stuff actually works! It would be nice to throw some marketing material around for KDE, nice screenshots, cool technology, get ISVs who have been Windows-oriented interested (and considering the competition that's not hard) just to generally counteract 'other stuff'. Unfortunately, at times it is necessary to counteract a lot of this crap. In the run up to KDE 4 hype the damn thing to the hills, because you're not going to have to worry about it falling short.
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Re: Good to hear
by AC on Tuesday 08/Nov/2005, @10:39
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Well said well said. Please join
#kde-promo
On freenode.net. Would be cool to get more people helping here.
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Re: Good to hear
by Leo S on Tuesday 08/Nov/2005, @18:51
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There is a (not so) fine line between advocating and trolling. Please stick to the advocating side (you mostly do so that's good).
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Re: Good to hear
by Segedunum on Wednesday 09/Nov/2005, @07:09
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One man's advocate is another's troll in things like this. I would just like an open source desktop that will work some time soon, and has the potential and framework to change, innovate and move things forward and does it in a way that's realistic.
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Re: Good to hear
by Ragnarok on Thursday 10/Nov/2005, @01:03
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Yep, just what KDE needs: More flamers invading websites and posting poorly written mentally unstable propaganda.
Have you considered that KDE's long-held reputation for being stuffed full of hair-trigger idiots who resort to slander, libel and mindless flaming when anyone else fails to accept the "One true way of KDE" is actually damaging to the project?
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Re: Good to hear
by sd on Thursday 10/Nov/2005, @04:09
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Contradicting people while you know that they won't agree qualifies you as a troll, even if you mean to sound serious.
I still can't understand why gnome people come to the dot *(the flamers, I mean, the rest are ok). Who in his serious mind goes to gnome sites to deride nautilus?
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Re: Good to hear
by Ragnarok on Thursday 10/Nov/2005, @05:41
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* Contradicting people while you know that they won't agree qualifies you as a troll, even if you mean to sound serious.
Meaningless psychobabble.
* I still can't understand why gnome people come to the dot *(the flamers, I mean, the rest are ok). Who in his serious mind goes to gnome sites to deride nautilus?
KDE has a reputation (well deserved) for sending out its flying monkey hordes to attack anyone who disagrees. Most alarmingly of all, it's not just dimwit hangers-on either... a number of KDE developers have done it too. Just take a look at the recent Novell threads here (and on slashdot), and can you honestly tell me that the KDE project can be proud of the behaviour of its zealots? Now look back over recent history -- Red Hat, Richard Stallman, Sun, Bruce Perens, Ximian, and now Novell. The way KDE supporters behaved, you'd think those people and organizations were mass murderers... instead of just people who didn't agree/support the KDE project.
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Re: Good to hear
by Segedunum on Thursday 10/Nov/2005, @07:53
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" KDE has a reputation (well deserved) for sending out its flying monkey hordes to attack anyone who disagrees."
Monkeys! Well that's funny. What do you think this is? And to say that Gnome has not had a centralised and project wide campaign of doing that, well, you need your eyes tested.
"Most alarmingly of all, it's not just dimwit hangers-on either... a number of KDE developers have done it too. Just take a look at the recent Novell threads here (and on slashdot), and can you honestly tell me that the KDE project can be proud of the behaviour of its zealots?"
Kurt Pfeifle has turned out to be right so far. I simply think that an open source desktop needs something that is economically viable, and I've explained why. Some people obviously don't like it but that's a problem for them to deal with themselves.
"Now look back over recent history -- Red Hat, Richard Stallman, Sun, Bruce Perens, Ximian, and now Novell. The way KDE supporters behaved, you'd think those people and organizations were mass murderers... instead of just people who didn't agree/support the KDE project."
Richard Stallman, Bruce Perens and Ximian in particular have not exactly behaved with the ethics that some in the open source community claim to cherish. They've stamped their feet, they wanted control of KDE when it first started and whinged about 'KDE's license' when they realised they couldn't, they've wanted their own way without giving rational reasons as to the decisions they're making (no, developing everything for nothing is not what an enterprise wants to hear Bruce) and they've made arguments about KDE consistently for years which KDE has not done the other way around.
When was the last time you heard a KDE developer complain about Gnome and GTK's licensing, proclaimed KDE as a corporate desktop or asked Gnome people to cooperate with KDE through Freedesktop by adopting all of the stuff that KDE is adopting? When was the last time you saw Gnome developers back this 'interoperability' and 'brothers in arms' thing they keep coming up with by solid actions and raw code by coding something like QtGTK which integrates GTK apps into KDE, and could be done vice versa but no one on the Gnome side is interested?
Please don't try and take some sort of moral high ground here. You don't have it.
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