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KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by fast_rizwaan on Tuesday 31/Jan/2006, @20:54
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Nope, I am not starting a flamebait... but comparing the DPI used by KDE, GNOME, Openoffice, xfce.
Gnome uses 96dpi screen resolution, Openoffice.org uses 96dpi screen resolution, MS Windows uses 96dpi screen resolutions, but KDE uses 75x75 screen resolution or non-standard ones 84x84 etc.,
The fonts look 20% (twenty percent) smaller in KDE applications and Openoffice documents and kword documents look different (koffice documents being smaller font size due to small screen resolution)
Could we consider KDE's default Screen resolution to 96x96dpi for better visual compatibility with Gnome, XFCE, Openoffice and other websites which expects 96dpi as screen resolution (due to M$).
If we start KDE applications in XFCE then you can see *fonts* of KDE apps look *too big* (due to XFCE using 96dpi and KDE using 75dpi).
I wonder is there a freedesktop.org standard for screen resolution, which could make fonts look similar in all Desktop Environments? |
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by KDE User on Tuesday 31/Jan/2006, @22:29
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DPI is a function of the X server. In fact, for a proper DPI setting, let X figure it out by asking your monitor. Mine's set at 90x84 which is correct, because X knows the size of my monitor and the resolution I'm running at.
Either way, though, you can run KDE at 96x96 if you want. There's nothing stopping you.
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by fast_rizwaan on Wednesday 01/Feb/2006, @02:01
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open an opendocument with kword and that same document with openoffice 2.0.x, you can see that document looks different... setting dpi to 96 makes kword and openoffice.org's document look same.
A document created should look same either or kde or gnome or ms windows. I am suggesting 96dpi as default for KDE (which can be configured from kcontrol to increase/decrease the dpi for BIG screens and Small Screen respectively.)
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by Boudewijn Rempt on Tuesday 31/Jan/2006, @23:28
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Actually, this is something that is very broken in Gnome -- which blithely disregards the dpi settings of X11 (which you can set yourself, in /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc (if you're using kdm and Kubuntu, at least):
ServerArgsLocal=-dpi 96 -nolisten tcp
Or which X11 can figure out from the size and resolution of your monitor. My laptop panel is 1680x1050 15", but there are also 21" monitors with that resolution. It stands to reason that pixels are differently sized on those examples, so if you want accurate font sizes (wysisyg, remember), your desktop environment needs to take that into account.
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by Gogs on Wednesday 01/Feb/2006, @02:07
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I've filed a bug about something that seems quite similar. Could you guys check this out and see if it also fails for you? If it doesn't, it's obviously something to do with my setup so I'll close the bug..
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=120061
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by Boudewijn Rempt on Wednesday 01/Feb/2006, @02:36
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You've got a minimum font size of 10 set in your konqueror settings. If you set that to two, everything is nicely scaled. And yes, this is a very welcome feature of konqueror.
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by Gogs on Wednesday 01/Feb/2006, @02:54
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How do you know what my minimum font size is set to? (It's NOT 10 btw!)
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by MamiyaOtaru on Wednesday 01/Feb/2006, @13:03
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He (and you it seems) assumed the page you linked to was showing fonts' point size. It isn't, it is showing the pixel size. If you switch to point size (choose 'pt' next to 'font size') all the fonts size 8 and lower will be the same for you, exactly as one would expect from your konqueror settings.
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by Gogs on Thursday 02/Feb/2006, @12:22
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Ok, can you explain to me why when my minimum font size is set to 8, and in KDE control centre my font selection is Tahoma 7, that that page displays font size 8 (8pt, not 8px) smaller than my Tahoma 7 fonts in my menus...?
I'm not being sarcastic here, I genuinely believe that something is wrong somewhere with how kde scales/displays fonts, but if it's my ignorance then I'd like it explained to me where I'm going wrong.....
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by Ookaze on Wednesday 01/Feb/2006, @04:35
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Is it really broken in Gnome ?
IIRC in my case, in Gnome preferences, you can choose to keep what the X server says or choose your own.
As a matter of fact, I don't have the problem discussed here in Gnome nor in KDE at home (and I'm at 96 dpi at 1600x1200 on a CRT 22").
But perhaps that's because it was configured a long time ago in KDE, I don't know.
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by Kosh on Wednesday 01/Feb/2006, @07:21
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I disagree with this entirely. Windows is going to be changing this behavior with Vista to be the true DPI of the monitor instead of the hack they have now. I have no idea why gnome is using that stupid hack but I want the dpi to be set correctly. A 16pt font should be the same size on any size display regardless of resolution. Increased resolution gives greater accuracy in rendering it does not change the size of any element. KDE behaves correctly by default for this. I can run kde on a high dpi monitor and have no problems at all. However with windows you need special driver hacks to make it work. I expect you will need the same hacks on gnome to make it do the right thing.
Displays are getting higher rez and higher dpi all the time and so going back to a hack about the way people are used to is just a horrible idea. KDE needs to stay the way it is now and the problem will sort itself out over time. Actually if other systems did things correctly there would not be a good reason to run in anything other then the max resolution that the device you where using supports since that would give a better quality image.
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by fast_rizwaan on Wednesday 01/Feb/2006, @19:50
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> Displays are getting higher rez and higher dpi all the time and so going back to a hack about the way people are used to is just a horrible idea.
You are exactly right, but is there any free-standard for DPI (dots per inches) for free-desktops like KDE, GNome, XFCE?:
I can't find any at: http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Standards
perhaps freedesktop did not notice dpi issues with "font sizes" with different desktops.
There are millions of Monitors which will take another 5 years to change, till then KDE applications' documents and text look different from other desktops! and this is also a horrible idea!
Making 96dpi by default (with KDE) make font sizes in harmony with other desktops and applications (openoffice), consistency could be achieved.
Letting users decide to have (96 or Autodetected resolution) settings in kcontol will solve the issue for good.
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by Christian Loose on Thursday 02/Feb/2006, @00:52
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> You are exactly right, but is there any free-standard for DPI (dots per inches) for free-desktops like KDE, GNome, XFCE?:
It seems you are totally confused. DPI isn't something you agree on. It's determined by dividing width (or height) of the display area in pixels, by width (or height) of the display area in inches.
So a 14.1 inches wide by 11.3 inches high monitor with a resultion of 1280x1024
has a dpi of 91x91.
> Making 96dpi by default (with KDE) make font sizes in harmony with other desktops and applications
No, it will make the font size wrong on many monitors.
> Letting users decide to have (96 or Autodetected resolution) settings in kcontol will solve the issue for good
Others should already how do achieve this.
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by Brandybuck on Wednesday 01/Feb/2006, @10:37
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On my system, KDE uses 96 DPI. Why? Because that's what my monitor is! If you're not getting the right DPI, it's because your X server is misconfigured. This isn't KDE's fault.
There is no standard DPI. It depends on your monitor.
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Re: KDE vs gnome vs openoffice screen resolution!
by Jinesh Choksi on Wednesday 01/Feb/2006, @12:51
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DPI is an X Window System property and has nothing to do with KDE!
To setup the DPI to be precisely 96x96 dpi each time, you need to add a line into you xorg.conf
Locate Section "Monitor" and add the following lines before EndSection:
# DisplaySize 270 203 # 1024x768 96dpi
# DisplaySize 338 254 # 1280x960 96dpi
# DisplaySize 338 270 # 1280x1024 96dpi
# DisplaySize 370 277 # 1400x1050 96dpi
# DisplaySize 423 370 # 1600x1400 96dpi
Uncomment the resolution you normally use...
To get MS fonts working properly...try looking at the following guide:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=20976&highlight=cleartype
It's Ubuntu(Debian) specific but the instructions for the DPI stuff can be carried out on any linux box.
By the way, if you're going to use the Virtual or Viewport keywords then the above DisplaySize will not take effect. Also, for Nvidia graphics card, there is an Option called "UseEdidDpi" which needs to be set to "FALSE" for your DisplaySize option to to take effect.
For more info see:
http://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-8174/README/32bit_html/appendix-y.html
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