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  KOffice 2.0, The Vision
KDE Office Suite Posted by Thomas Zander on Monday 05/Jun/2006, @07:33
from the write-history-yourself dept.
KOffice is working on its future, one based on KDE4. KOffice is starting new initiatives with libraries like Flake and Pigment that are going to be used for all KOffice applications. For the users of KOffice those changes are invisible until the 2.0 previews actually start to appear some months from now. Therefore the KOffice crew wants to show you their goals of what KOffice 2 is going to look like. Read more for the whole story.

When I first saw a paper on KOffice back in 1999 it showed the concept of embedded documents which allows me to have a formula or chart in my paper and allow me to update my charts by just altering some cells in my spreadsheet. The idea that an open source and good looking office suite does that brought me into KOffice.

Now, many years later, we are moving to the next level. KOffice will define so called 'shapes' which can be anything from a simple triangle to a multi-layered image and allow those to be used in all KOffice applications as the building blocks of a document just like they are shapes that the application provides itself. So no more embedded documents which are always square and always start from the top-left corner. This allows for simple things like KWord finally providing simple lines to be drawn, but much more exciting are new features like being able to rotate or skew a KWord text frame. And not only being able to do that in a KWord document, but also in a Krita or a Karbon document.

In KOffice each application will have a specific media that it will specialise in. KWord will obviously specialise in text frames while Karbon will specialise in all sorts of vector graphics. The difference is that the applications will put all that in a Shape and a Tool.

Consider a user who wants to write a paper and have a nice vector graphic in the header of his document. He would be able to load an svg graphic and place it in his KWord document. For tweaking the loaded graphic he can just click on it and at that point KWord will see that the shape is a vector one. KWord will then supply a tool in the toolbox (which is the normal 2-columns toolbar type thing Krita already has) that allows the user to alter the internal vector graphics right inside his KWord document. But without the annoying flickering and replacement of menu and toolbars that happens if the shape was really an external document being edited.

KOffice 2 will still have the most applications there are combined in any single office suite, and on top of that those applications will show an integration that's unparallelled in the industry. Each application really does make the whole more complete by literally making the other applications more powerful.

Every application that uses the Flake library will provide a shape-type that the other applications can use. Want to use that 1 cool Kivio-shape in your Krita painting, go ahead. But the most exciting part is that the shapes come with so called 'tools'. Where each application can use the interaction model for that shape type. And since its determined per shape-type, its the same across all the KOffice applications.

We already see the advantage with a basic interaction-tool that allows moving, rotation etc. of all shape-types. It has features like scaling with the control button down, reserving the aspect ratio of the shape. Unlike in KOffice 1.x that single interaction-tool will be used in all KOffice applications stopping the application from reinventing the wheel, they are literally all running the same code and thus all applications will work consistently towards the user. Definitely a good thing for usability.


Flake in KWord 2

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Over 40 comments listed. Printing out index only.
Pigment?
by bob on Monday 05/Jun/2006, @14:24
You mean Pikment surely
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Development will delay a lot
by Nooopss on Monday 05/Jun/2006, @15:56
With the FIFA world cup here, we will stop our work to give a look at those thousand pretty brazilian womens with their usual small skirts.
Sorry folks, KDE 4.0 will be launched next year, probably.
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And why not fixing the bugs first?
by me on Monday 05/Jun/2006, @15:57
Instead of reinventing the wheel, why don't they just try to fix the compatibility issues with ODF? You can't write ODF formulas (they're lost when you save them) and so you can't have any formulas at all in KWord's defauolt format.
The spreadsheet is a joke, Kword is fast, but lacks so many things... Only Krita seems to get proper attention.
So, why not make it usable after all and then start implementing innovations?
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Live interaction beween apps?
by Nobody on Monday 05/Jun/2006, @16:09
So is going to be possible to have multiple koffice apps running side-by-side and edit shared items between docs live, so that I could edit a kspread table that would be updated on kword doc, kivio diagram on kpresenter, or whatever combination sharing objects _live_ so I could instantly how the end result would look like?

As it kinda sucks to need to save/reload whatever object when doing docs.
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DDE, OLE and OpenDoc?
by testerus on Monday 05/Jun/2006, @18:49
What is the difference to Dynamic Data Exchange and Object Linking and Embedding in the Windows world? Or OpenDoc on the Mac?
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Why apps? But anywho.
by James Richard Tyrer on Monday 05/Jun/2006, @19:00
I continue to wonder why it is necessary to have separate Word, Spread, & Chart applications rather than having these integrated into one app that uses parts.

IAC, what I would like to see is to have it possible to link a number in a KWord document to a cell in a KSpread document and have it look just exactly like I had typed the number in the KWord document, yet if I change the spreadsheet, the number in the KWord document would change.
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Why 2.0
by KDE User on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @02:13
Why not name it something more glorious?

Like Koffice 2000, or Koffice 4 (KDE 4). Koffice XP. :-))
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Balancing feature race and stability
by Roger F on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @02:14
Look,

I commend the effort to add advanced functionality to Koffice.
But right now, Koffice is at a point where I -want- to use it but -cannot-.
Why?

Simply because it is too unstable and unreliable. You won't see me using Koffice before that is fixed, regardless of advanced new features. I suspect a lot of other people are of the same opinion...
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Flake and printing
by Charles de Miramon on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @02:52
Is flake going to solve the printing diabilities of KOffice ? I would love to use KSpread but I have always been seriously annoyed by the complexity to go from the screen to a nice A4 printed sheet.

Creating a well balanced set of printed sheets of paper is certainly not easy
but KOffice seems to have structural problems on this matter.
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OpenOffice Compatibility
by hannes hauswedell on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @03:56
what does this mean for cmpatability with OOo?
is this just an accessibility improvement, or does it result in special files?

i bet all office suits will use ODF, but each in its own "interpretation", which will result in same old incompatability....
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Tabs
by Youssef on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @06:27
What I would really like to see* in KOffice is tabs, like in Konqueror. I never saw an office suite that has such a simple but cool feature.


_______________________________

* Plus proper right-to-left support, at least like OpenOffice.org
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my hope
by Superstoned on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @07:09
well, then, let me add my 'hope' for Koffice 2: nice versioning support, change management and all this cooperation-ready. Easy sharing of documents, being able to see what someone else changed, annotations to changes, being able to change a doc both at the same time (preferably real-time) etcetera. These things would writing documents in a company or for university/school much easier...

I know there is a SOC project, but will it make these things possible?
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Why not OOo
by Josh Taylor on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @11:14
I bet KOffice users hear this all the time, but why not just use OpenOffice? Sure, it's big and all, and some hippies may complain about it using Java, but at least it's fully-featured and supported. I tried KOffice a couple of times and it left me at the most unimpressed.
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Why is everyone so negative ?
by paul on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @12:07
Sure, Koffice is still at early development stage, but at least it is considering office work from a new point of view and stating, at this early stage, the basis of a good design to support all innovative stuff it will bring. AFAIK, this gives better results on the long term than jumping in the buffer and typing lines and lines of code, then hacking them. OOo actualy has a long history of code then think that leaded to the actual situation : Less than 10 people in the world are casual devs, the remaning being professional employees of companies doing it at full time. The reason ? It is a BIG stack of hacks not understandable for the non-fulltime dev.
In the meantime, at the time being, OOo is the most powerfull tool available for office tasks - I consider it sincerly better than MSOffice - , then I use it happily and everyone probably do the same. But they are struggling to maintain it and paying for the lack of good early stage design.
By and large, I am very confident about Koffice on the long term, and I don't really see an emergency need for the short term, so thank you KOffice people, and take your time to make good choices. :)
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True Type fonts are crappy...
by fast_rizwaan on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @12:31
"Times New Roman" and other MS TTFs are not printed nicely with KWord :( But other fonts like "Century" fonts look awesome. Please fix Printing (font issues). I still have to use MS Word for better printouts :(

also the one of the nicest fonts "Bookman Old Style" is rendered bold always :(
Click to download attachment No Bigger Lie Than Death.odt
30KB (31684 bytes)

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Love what you guys are doing!
by Chase Venters on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @13:19
Please keep going ahead, full speed. KOffice is fantastic -- lightweight and innovative. I look forward to further compatibility, stability and functionality.
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Embedded documents not original to KOffice
by Malcolm Dean on Tuesday 06/Jun/2006, @19:22
"When I first saw a paper on KOffice back in 1999 it showed the concept of embedded documents which allows me to have a formula or chart in my paper and allow me to update my charts by just altering some cells in my spreadsheet. The idea that an open source and good looking office suite does that brought me into KOffice."

In these incoherent sentences, are you claiming that KOffice is responsible for bringing this concept to office automation software? I'm sorry... we had some fabulous DOS applications which did this, and frequently did it better.
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headers and footers
by ferdinand on Wednesday 07/Jun/2006, @00:17
every application (kword, kspread, kpresenter) has a different way to define and / or to present the header/fotter setup.
IMHO this should be unifyed
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kspread formulas not updated correctly
by ferdinand on Wednesday 07/Jun/2006, @00:21
As long as kspread does not update the formulas as other spread sheets do, it has a very limited user base.

see http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58652
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Naming standard
by ale on Wednesday 07/Jun/2006, @13:14
Why all those strange names? Kexi? Karbon14?

Why not continue using the easy and catchy K-standard. Kbase, Kpaint, Kdraw, kplan etc. Much easier, sounds more professional
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Koffice is a killer app
by Thomas on Wednesday 07/Jun/2006, @14:35
Please keep up the good work. KDE needs its own Office Package for diversity and integration.

KOffice is fast and nice!
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SCIM support?
by Neo-Rio on Wednesday 07/Jun/2006, @18:36
Does KOffice support other languages? I've been having a hard time getting Japanese text into Kword via SCIM-anthy. Is there a way to do this at all?
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sounds great!
by Lee on Wednesday 07/Jun/2006, @23:46
This sounds like a huge step forward, really building on the new rendering features in Qt4. I'll be excited to see KOffice 2 :)

I do have a concern or two though. One is memory use. If this core library does everything, and editing SVG in KWord doesn't load a new app/kpart, but instead works as just another tool, then won't that mean loading the entire KOffice suite for every app? I assume you've thought of this, so I'm mostly just asking what cool technology I'm missing that allows you to do this :)

Secondly, have their been any more thoughts towards document processing in KWord as opposed to just word processing? I meant to get a proposal together for this, but I've been really pushed for time, and it's a pretty complex thing to cover in detail.
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not impressed
by Rex on Thursday 08/Jun/2006, @06:01
thats great, already look forward to the future... but kspread still doesnt compare to gnumeric or openoffice's calc... samething could be said about kword vs abiword and openoffice's writer. How long do we have to wait, how often do you need to re-write and re-design? people are after more features, and less bugs, the current koffice suite unfortantly offers the opposite.
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Congratulations for KOffice
by Wackou on Friday 09/Jun/2006, @11:23
Seriously, congratulations for the work you're doing, keep it up!

I have to admit I'm not a user of office programs on a regular basis, although I have to use them from time to time, and KOffice is actually the first office program that I didn't hate after 5 minutes of using it. I actually quite like it!

I do not like MS Office, nor OpenOffice (because it's an exact copy), because of the way they push you to write documents that just seem "hackish" to me. KWord seems much more natural to use, and this even without the "help" from clippy (which is just an obnoxious hack/patch for bad interface design).

And to all the people that complain: if you don't like it, don't use it. KOffice developers don't owe you anything, it's rather the opposite. I am thankful to them for doing what they do, and I can't wait for KOffice 2 to be out (with KDE4 and amaroK 2... ahhh...)

Also, I think they're doing the right thing, because fixing a bad design is _much more_ important than fixing little glitches here and there, accumulating patches over patches until you get a mess out of it (think linux vs windows). Being a programmer, I can't recall the number of times that rewriting something from scratch eliminated all the bugs I had that would have taken weeks of slow and painful and boring bug-fixing, when there was even no possibility for them to appear in the new design.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank the KOffice team and encourage them to continue innovating so as to produce the *only* office suite that is pleasant to use (which is its major feature to me)
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More Linux Idiots
by Helms on Saturday 10/Jun/2006, @07:38
This is another example of Linux idiots at work:

1) Why do Linux idiots always add layers of features onto non-working or broken code?
2) Why do Linux idiots always hype their projects, while ignoring the serious problems and bugs?
3) Does anyone really need, or want, or plan to use KOffice?
4) Why not cancel KOffice, and have those developers clean up the mess that is the KDE desktop?
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KChart better plotting?
by Prashanth Kumar on Sunday 02/Jul/2006, @14:19
Was wondering if there would be better plotting capabilities in KChart and flexibility in data plotting with KSpread (plotting multiple datasets in same graph...). Such a feature would definately be of use to scientists and engineers, and perhaps others in related fields...
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The real challenge for an office suite
by walter hoogerbeets on Thursday 06/Jul/2006, @18:43
I really like KOffice, i wish, i wish i could use it at my job. So this is why i want to share what i have been thinking about while working in my office.
I use 'that' office suite at work. Have no choice. It's no fun, but on the other hand, the differences with KO and OOo are actually quite small. There is no fundamental difference between the three. KOffice should make a fundamental difference.
I think i might have an idea for such a difference. Many people who work in an office have a modern desk top computer or a laptop, but still they have a pile of paper on their desk and a virtual pile on their hard disk. This is because most knowledge workers make their product out of a great amount of very non-isotrope information. A report is almost always based on a collection of emails, .docs, articles on paper, pages from books, webpages, .pdfs etc.

Nowadays, there is only one way to order all this information: printing it all, and using lots of Post-It memo's. No joke. I'm considered a nerd, but i don't see any other solution. Printing & Post-It.

If KOffice wants to make a difference, tackle this. Please, drive Post-It out of business. One possibility would be to make an integration between Konqueror, KWord and some mindmapping-tool. On your screen, it should be possible to order your sources (i.e. the many totally different documents which form the base of your product), the essential parts of those sources (i.e. quotations with clear links to the sources), and the text you are writing.

The easy way to implement this is a three-pane window: one for your text, one showing the contents of your 'sources' folder on the HDD, and in between an ordered listing of the relevant quotations from the source.

Probably there are better solutions. I am not a hacker, i cannot make this myself, that is why i try to share my experiences as a knowledge worker. I hope someone from the KOffice team gets inspired by my story. I really think the challenge for KOffice is getting beyond Printing & Post-It.
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