Impact on KDOM2

faq
flatforty
contribute
subscribe
configure
search
rdf

main
parent

Impact on KDOM2
by Shyru on Wednesday 12/Jul/2006, @00:46

Which impact does this have on KDOM2 and KSVG2? I think KDOM2 has a really great concept behind.
Is Webkit beeing ported to that, or would we "loose" that development efforts if we would go WebKit directly/only? Can anyone involved shed some light?

Thanks!

Related Links

·   Articles on Konqueror
·   Also by Shyru
·   Contact author

The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whomever posted them.
( Reply )

Re: Impact on KDOM2
by Evan "JabberWokky" E. on Wednesday 12/Jul/2006, @04:11

Just going out on a limb: since KSVG2 is based on top of KDOM2, and KSVG2 is being ported to Webkit, it would make sense that KDOM2 is as well.

I am not sure, however.

[ Reply To This | View ]

Re: Impact on KDOM2
by Frans Englich on Wednesday 12/Jul/2006, @06:11

Rob Buis, one of the developers behind KSVG2 is currently working in the Webkit camp. The most up-to-date version of KSVG2 resides in Apple's repository. Rob told me they plan to port the "good" parts back to KDE.

In general, all code concerning XML & HTML is chaotic. I fully understand anyone who can't track it(I don't, I didn't know about unity until now). There's KSVG2, Patternist, KHTML, KHTML2, KDOM, WebCore, and the list goes on.

Personally i'm interested in Patternist, currently residing in KDOM. It is an XPath 2.0/XQuery 1.0/XSL-T 2.0 implementation(not complete though, but good on its way). Once integrated, it will provide those technologies to the whole of KDE. And Konqueror will have features other browsers are light-years from acquiring.

For those interested, Patternist's API documentation is here:

http://patternist.sf.net/documentation/API/

Cheers,
Frans

(KDOM/Patternist developer)

[ Reply To This | View ]

Re: Impact on KDOM2
by Shyru on Wednesday 12/Jul/2006, @06:58

I also heard about patternist some time ago, and i really think it is a great base for anything dealing with XPath/XQuery/XSL. I always thought that patternist would be used in KDOM2 and thus also be used in KHTML2/KSVG2. Is this wrong? (You stated it resides in KDOM)
The next question is: if KSVG2 is developed inside WebKit, is KDOM2 also in WebKit? I was always under the impression that KSVG2 and KHTML2 relied on KDOM2 as a common base. Is this also wrong?

Anyone care to enlighten us more? Any information would be greatly appreciated!

[ Reply To This | View ]

Re: Impact on KDOM2
by Rob Buis on Wednesday 12/Jul/2006, @09:47

Hi,

It is all a bit hard to explain :) This describes our experiences best:

http://lists.kde.org/?l=kfm-devel&m=114099614807147&w=2

Please drop by in #ksvg sometime if you need more info.
Cheers,

Rob.

[ Reply To This | View ]

Re: Impact on KDOM2
by Frans Englich on Thursday 13/Jul/2006, @08:15

Patternist resides in KDOM(that is, kdenonbeta/kdom/patternist) but does not have KDOM nor Webkit as dependency. The only essential dependencies are QtCore and kdecore(although Patternist did have a significant dependency on the KDOM library once).

So, the dependency goes the other way around; KHTML will depend on Patternist in order to get XSL-T support, for example. Similarly, if KOffice will want to use XSL-T for its import/export filter(or whatever), it will link to Patternist.

The good part is that Patternist isn't hard coded on a particular tree implementation(which for example KHTML/KDOM/Webkit/Unity is) meaning it's possible to query anything if one sub-classes a couple of classes. QDom, KHTML's tree, or pretty much any hierarchical data.

The idea is to move Patternist into kdelibs/patternist since it is the lowest denominator of everything, but it /might/ be some other place will be more suitable now with Unity and all, although I currently doubt it.

Frans

[ Reply To This | View ]

Re: Impact on KDOM2
by Frans Englich on Thursday 13/Jul/2006, @08:39

Some more comments:

* No, Patternist doesn't use KDOM's tree implementation. KDOM has an implementation of W3C's DOM XPath Module. That is, the implementation acts as glue code adapting Patternist's APIs into the DOM API(which is a very limited subset compared to Patternist's). So, KDOM depends on Patternist in order to supply the XPath DOM API.

* No KDOM2 exists. KDOM, kdenonbeta/kdom, exists, which originally was derived from KHTML during KDE 3.x(kdelibs/khtml). Nikolas Zimmermann(one of the main hackers on KDOM) have said he consider KDOM dead because work is taking place elsewhere. However, KDOM contains tons of code that can be integrated elsewhere(such as XPointer, OASIS XML Catalog 1.1, XInclude 1.0 and DOM 3 Core implementations).

* KSVG2 is the rewrite of "KSVG". KSVG is the one used in KDE 3.x, in kdegraphics. KSVG is not relevant in these discussions.

* KSVG2 is(or was) being integrated into kdelibs/khtml in branches/work/khtml-svg(by Nikolas and Rob). However, it's been a while since that was active so perhaps it will start all over now with Unity and that general KHTML development has proceeded.

* The project called "KHTML2", kdenonbeta/khtml2, is pretty much dead as far as I know. It was an effort to put KHTML on top of KDOM. Carewolf(Allen, the CSS hacker) have expressed it's no way that's going into kdelibs. It's also in general rather old and obsolete and not into the loop of recent developments.

* When Apple was in the early stages of opening up their repository and acquiring SVG support by using KSVG2, they ported needed parts from KDOM into Webkit(IIRC) and the two bases were mutually synced for some time at the beginning. But KDOM as a whole is not in Webkit. However, the code bases are quite similar in this area so KSVG2 operates directly on top of Webkit.

All this is very confusing as one can tell, and I many times think it's rather unproductive because of all the projects in action where little synchronization and planning is taking place. In several cases decisions have been made which has down right hurt other projects.

And of course, I can be wrong above or have missed something, it's not easy to track all this :)

Frans

[ Reply To This | View ]

The Fine Print: The previous comments are owned by whomever posted them.
( Reply )


		"I'd like to turn all users into developers." -- Ralf Nolden
KDE®, "K Desktop Environment", "KDE Dot News", "got the dot?" and the KDE Logo® are trademarks or registered trademarks of KDE e.V. in the European Union, the United States and other countries. All other trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the poster. The rest: Copyright © 2000-2008 KDE e.V. for The KDE Project. For further information or comments on this site, please contact the Webmaster.