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Re: focus on usability
by Coolo on Wednesday 02/Aug/2006, @14:15
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Good luck trying to connect to ICQ or MSN on OS X :)
Do they have GoogleTalk at least?
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Re: focus on usability
by Jakob Petsovits on Wednesday 02/Aug/2006, @16:07
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I haven't tried Adium, but it's said to be great. And building on libgaim, it certainly provides support for those two networks as well.
Not that I wouldn't prefer Kopete nevertheless...
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Re: focus on usability
by rinse on Thursday 03/Aug/2006, @03:05
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Adium looks nice, but is not a default application for MacOS.
So the situation is not much different: one needs to use an alternative application to connect with google talk.
If that is a usability problem, well then all operating systems / grafical environments have a usability problem ;)
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Re: focus on usability
by rinse on Thursday 03/Aug/2006, @03:00
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"For example, why can't I configure a GoogleTalk account in Kopete? "
Let me guess, because it hasn't been implemented yet?
Its a bit odd to blame the whole desktop for a feature that is absent in 1 application.
[quote]
As a software guy I know that GoogleTalk uses the Jabber protocol, but my wife for sure doesn't know....
[/quote]
As a software guy, you could implement google talk in Kopete :)
And most people who aren't into software would probably just download the googletalk messenger and use it, or ask someone with more skills if it is possible to use googletalk in kopete..
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Re: focus on usability
by Jon Orn Arnarson on Thursday 03/Aug/2006, @04:22
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I'm using Google Talk with kopete...
You have to change your connection settings
Overrride default server information:
talk.google.com 5223
I think that's about it.
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Re: focus on usability
by Evan "JabberWokky" E. on Thursday 03/Aug/2006, @06:04
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Google Talk works just fine on Kopete, I use it every day with a number of people. User images, authorization, blocking... it all works perfectly. You can find the instructions on how to configure it on the Google Talk site.
You might try reading their site before complaining.
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Re: focus on usability
by Evan "JabberWokky" E. on Thursday 03/Aug/2006, @06:08
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Incidentally, that's like complaining "KMail doesn't work with my ISP". You have to enter the mail server, your login and password. Same goes with Outlook or any other mail program. You have to get the mail server from your ISP's web site.
For Google Talk, get the chat server info from Google Talk's web site.
Honestly, that's a pretty lame "too-technical-for-the-average-user" example, considering that every mail program needs a server, login and password entered into it as well. As does any client for Google Talk.
By the way... Kopete supported Google Talk long before Google Talk was released.
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Re: focus on usability
by Jim on Thursday 03/Aug/2006, @09:44
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You're totally missing his point.
With Google Talk, you install it, it asks you for your username and password, and it works.
With Kopete, you install it, then you have to set up an account, then you have to know that you should pick Jabber, then you have to give it server addresses and port numbers, then you have to give it your username and password, and only then does it work.
It's way more complicated than it should be. Users don't like dealing with server addresses and port numbers. And no, it's not like email, because most users get their email set up automatically by their ISPs installation CD, so it's just as easy as putting in your username and password.
You're completely out of touch with what's complicated for normal users. Don't assume fiddling around with settings is acceptable.
And try not to be so hypocritical. He *obviously* knows that Google Talk uses Jabber, he said so in his comment. Telling him to "read their site before complaining" only makes it obvious you didn't even read his comment all the way through.
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Re: focus on usability
by Evan "JabberWokky" E. on Thursday 03/Aug/2006, @10:24
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:: He *obviously* knows that Google Talk uses Jabber,
And that's why I said it's no more difficult than setting up an email application. It would be wonderful if Kopete came with a one form Google Talk signup/setup page. But his question was "why can't I configure a GoogleTalk account in Kopete". Google Talk *themselves* answer his question in their section on setting up other chat programs.
:: You're completely out of touch with what's complicated for normal users.
No I am not. It should be improved and be more like the AIM setup -- one page, a couple questions, a link to signup. But Kopete's support for Google Talk was implemented *before* Google Talk came out, so how can they have a more user friendly interface for something that didn't exist then? If the next big release of Kopete doesn't have easier support, then I'll agree with you.
Heck, I agree with him about his wife. But if he knows what Jabber is, he can set it up. With the next release his wife may be able to. Maybe... I know "normal" users very well. I know people who, after two years of trying, haven't figured out how to set up their iPod on their Powerbook. And that's with several calls to Apple.
Also, you may overestimate me. I like KDE because it's easy and I don't want to deal with any of that "type here and there and run this script and type build make" crap. I hate dealing with computers and setting up stuff more than you might understand. But I don't fault software for supporting something awkwardly until the authors have had a chance to make it more easy to use. KDE has a good track record of ever-easier configuration.
My biggest beef is that he's complaining about using X with Y from company Z when company Z's website has simple instructions on how to use X with Y. Bad example. Try complaining about the hellish print system or the headache of having to enter a password into some cryptic window to change your clock time.
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Re: focus on usability
by AC on Thursday 03/Aug/2006, @16:19
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What Kopete needs is an interface that lets the user connect to Google Talk, just like with jabber, msn, icq, etc. etc.
The fact that kopete does not provide such an interface is not an useability problem, it's just that it has not been implemented yet.
If Google Talk uses another propietary protocol that is not available in Kopete, you would not complain about usability, but about a missing feature.
But since Google uses the Jabber Protocol, wich makes it possible to use it in kopete with a workaround, you start complaining about the usability of KDE in general and kopete in particular?
Again, it is not a usability flaw, it's a feature that has not been implemented.
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Re: focus on usability
by gnulinuxman on Saturday 05/Aug/2006, @13:41
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As mentioned above, Google Talk is a standard Jabber account. It isn't proprietary. I can talk to other Jabber users using it.
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Re: focus on usability
by Evan "JabberWokky" E. on Sunday 06/Aug/2006, @10:05
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The protocol is standard, but it operates on a specific server and a port that is slightly off from the common Jabber port, plus it requires specific security settings. It would make it much easier for users if there was a single "Username/Password" + signup link dialog box for Google Talk.
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Re: focus on usability
by Quique on Saturday 05/Aug/2006, @00:41
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<I>why can't I configure a GoogleTalk account in Kopete?</I>
Because you didn't read the <A HREF="http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=Google%20Talk%20support">Google Talk Support</A> page at the KDE website.
Maybe the next version of Kopete should have a separate entry for GTalk, even if it uses the standard Jabber/XMPP protocol, but currently it's not hard at all to set it up.
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Re: focus on usability
by gnulinuxman on Saturday 05/Aug/2006, @13:38
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I still use Gaim because it actually shows the right set of smileys for each protocol. I'll start using Kopete if they can stop using the MSN smiley set for every single protocol!
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