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couple of gripes
by borker on Thursday 26/Oct/2006, @14:39
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There are two main complaints I have with edgy (I had to switch a while ago thanks to the intel/jmicron sata issue that prevented me sticking with dapper)
1. The system settings applet is missing some (IMHO) important controls from kcontrol. The main one for me is the 'launch feedback' control. The bouncy icon setting drives me nuts so it's litteraly the first thing i change on a fresh install. It's not in SS so you have to run kcontrol from console to fix that. I have nothing against distros reorganizing things to test usability ideas etc, but it really bugs me when that includes dropping functionality coghGNOMEcough to 'improve' usability
2. The hiding of everything except /media and /home in the file dialog is a realy big issue for me. I went to add a mount point for my file server through the GUI and whoops no /mnt even though I'm in the 'advanced' tab of SS and have given the admin password. OK update fstab by hand. Then I go to point Amarok at my newly mounted NFS share, where my music lib is. No /mnt in the file dialog and no inclination to figure out how Amarok's config files work to add that by hand... so off to google and kubuntu forums I go (after first going through SS for 1/2 an hour trying to find a way to override this behaviour) and eventually find that there is something called a .hidden file I can edit to get my file system back. Not exactly an intuitive friendly interface. If they want this (very dubious IMHO) improvement then at least make it overridable in some easy to find way instead of costing experienced users (still the bulk of the userbase) a bunch of time looking to get back functionality we've had for years.
</end rant>
Otherwise, nice graphics improve, supports jmicron properly, starts up REALLY quick, automatix gets you your deliciously evil codecs etc all sorted out (happy halloween... how does one dress up as as the DMCA?) and so far, so stable even through the tail end of the beta stage and using fairly 'cutting edge' hardware. |
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Re: couple of gripes
by Robert Knight on Thursday 26/Oct/2006, @14:55
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Regarding 1), these balancing acts are not easy. The classic KDE approach of making everything configurable in a huge settings dialog is, in my opinion, definitely not the way forwards. It becomes a warren in which more important settings ( ie. those settings which a larger proportion of the target users are likely to want to change ) are hard to find and the settings dialogs become hard to test properly.
I like what the Kubuntu folks are trying to do with System Settings, it isn't surprising that they didn't get it absolutely right first time.
Regarding 2), I think a good compromise would be to separate out the "home" and "media" folders from the others in the folder view rather than hiding them entirely.
By the way - please file bug reports or post feedback on the wiki for both the above if you haven't done so already.
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Re: couple of gripes
by borker on Friday 27/Oct/2006, @06:41
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Yup, I agree it is a balancing act, but KDE's functionality is one of the fundamental reasons I use it instead of other DEs, so I think for distros to go around removing that which makes KDE the better option for some of us is doing it a disservice. As I said I have no issues with improving the access to functionality... the basic/advanced split in systems settings is an example of that, I just don't want to lose functionality or have to start digging for it in conf files all the time.
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Re: couple of gripes
by John Tapsell on Thursday 26/Oct/2006, @16:12
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Ooo! So that's why I can't find my filesystem from some dialogs!
I thought it was a serious bug.
What do I have to edit to get rid of that?
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Re: couple of gripes
by borker on Friday 27/Oct/2006, @06:38
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have a look in /etc for something called kubuntu-default-settings (typing from memory... its something like that anyway) and there in there is a file called .hidden that file has the list of dirs it will hide from you... remove the ones you want to be able to see
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Re: couple of gripes
by Michael on Thursday 26/Oct/2006, @16:57
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I installed edgy at home yesterday. At my office I've still been waiting until things have settled down. I noticed the point #2 you mention just now because I didnt try to open anything before. Ugh!!! What a mess. This spoils my otherwise really great impression of Edgy totally. All my folders have gone. This sucks a lot. I cant even access my /mount folders if I enter them manually. This should really be configurable immediately from the open dialog. This is even worse than Windows where I can still click to show i.e. the Program Files folder. What the hell did they think they are doing - if anything at all? I sincerely hope this gets better again in future versions, otherwise I will keep out looking again for a different distro if they continue GNOMEifying KDE.
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Re: couple of gripes
by Michael on Thursday 26/Oct/2006, @17:02
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PS: I just found out how to solve this. Edgy created a ".hidden" file in "/" (root folder). You can remove it in order to show all folders again. Anyway - it's absolutely inexcusable that they didnt warn explicitly before downloading that I wont be able to open files properly if I dont remove the file. If I had upgraded my office machine I could not have used it for work before solving this. This sucks really a lot!
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Re: couple of gripes
by Simon Edwards on Thursday 26/Oct/2006, @22:59
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> This is even worse than Windows where I can still click to show i.e. the Program Files folder.
From Konq or the file dialog use the "Show hidden files" menu item and they are there. Typing in the first part of the path also works fine too.
--
Simon
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Re: couple of gripes
by Michael on Thursday 26/Oct/2006, @23:51
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Not in Konq. I'm talking of the file open dialog. Doesnt work here. I can enter i.e "/mnt" or "/" and press enter in the drop-down list at the top. No folders appear.
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Re: couple of gripes
by Jucato on Friday 27/Oct/2006, @03:46
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You can right-click in the dialog box, select View -> Show hidden files or press F8.
True, there should have been more information about this. Even the release notes are silent about this new feature. This would probably be the biggest source of complaints.
... I'm still waiting for that wiki page.
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Re: couple of gripes
by borker on Friday 27/Oct/2006, @06:54
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There is this page: <a href='https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuKDEMedia#preview'>wiki</a> (you can see my comments from a few days before the release at the bottom tagged with ---borker)
I also filed a bug about 2 weeks ago but it was closed pretty much straight away with no action taken.
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Re: couple of gripes
by terracotta on Friday 27/Oct/2006, @05:23
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Why do you insist on mounting the stuff you mount manually in /mnt (or in /mount as someone else here posted?), while you can mount it in /media, that's what that folder was created for I thought, the name of /media sais a lot more than /mnt or /mount to non-technical people, and it's not hard to find out for technical people. No usability is given up and things have become a lot more clear. In konqueror you can still access the *hidden* files by entering the path in case you need to dive into the hierarchy.
(ok, I don't understand why typing /usr or /mnt in the file dialog doesn't work anymore, it's clearly something that should be enabled, just like in konqueror, but generally IMHO this solution is great).
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Re: couple of gripes
by borker on Friday 27/Oct/2006, @06:50
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No, /media was created for media devices... cdroms, floppies, usb drives etc. /mnt is where you (/)mount stuff to. I'm not talking about konq, I know I can enter paths in that, but I can't use it to set the lib location in Amarok or point an application at my web source stuff /var or any other number of things I'd like to use my file dialog for.
I personally don't like this solution much, but I wouldn't have to care if it was easy to get rid of. My biggest objection to it is that I lost a big chunk of functionality with no warning and no way to get it back obvious. I shouldn't have to fight my system and scour the web to open a file.
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Re: couple of gripes
by Jucato on Friday 27/Oct/2006, @17:25
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If /media was created for media devices only, why are hard drives mounted to /media by default, then? What are hard drives? Aren't they media as well? Maybe you meant removable devices? But if /media is for removable devices only, and /mnt is for "a temporary mounted filesystem" only (check your FHS), where do you put permanent/standard mounts? Kubuntu has chosen to do that in /media. Most new users would mount to /media (if and when they know how to), anyway.
Anyway, you are supposed to mount to /media, now. If you still prefer to use /mnt, you can easily make /mnt appear again by editing the /.hidden file and removing /mnt. This will make it visible again in Amarok.
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Re: couple of gripes
by Martin Ellis on Saturday 28/Oct/2006, @08:59
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According to the FHS, /media is for removable media:
http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#MEDIAMOUNTPOINT
It doesn't seem particularly explicit wrt. whether it's exclusively for removeable media though. Either way, /mnt is still an acceptable place to mount stuff. It certainly doesn't appear to be deprecated.
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Re: couple of gripes
by terracotta on Saturday 28/Oct/2006, @13:33
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Nobody said it wasn't acceptable, but /media is acceptable as well and a lot more clear to what it is used for. Not used hard disk partitions are mounted there as well, while in for example media:/ all hard disks (even the one mounted to / ) are shown there (which is irritating to me, but that's a personal opinion). From the beginning of Ubuntu their preference of mounting stuff to /media was quite clear. The only thing they need to work out now, is a way to show the not mounted optical drives or removable media that are in the drive or in the usb-port to show up like in media:/.
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Re: couple of gripes
by mart on Monday 30/Oct/2006, @07:49
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Oh, I interpreted "Anyway, you are supposed to mount to /media, now" as a statement that things shouldn't be mounted there.
Besides, even if you do mount hard drives to /media, this isn't about mounting hard disks. The thread is about mounting NFS volumes.
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Re: couple of gripes
by panzi on Monday 18/Dec/2006, @17:32
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Thank you very much for this posting. I just had the same problem. :)
echo > /.hidden
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