faq  flatforty  contribute  subscribe  configure  search  rdf  main  parent  thread	Re: default filemanager by Richard Van Den Boom on Saturday 24/Feb/2007, @05:17 I work regularly on Windows and on KDE. On Windows I use Firefox as a browser and of course Explorer as File manager. This is actually cumbersome, annoying and I much prefer my KDE experience where I use the same app to do both. I like to browse FTP sites and to be able to sort by type of files, by date or anything. I like to be able to use the "copy to" fight-click option to select several files or entire directories and copy them in a single click where I want them on my disk. I like to upload files on my personal web site by just drag and drop, without having to fire up a specific and annoying FTP app. I also like to connect to other machines through SSH or SMB transparently. As a matter of fact, Konqueror versatility has probably been THE feature that made me prefer KDE since the begining. I can't see any reason why having a different app for browsing and file management is preferable. And all this thing about clutered interface and everything seems to me a lot of wasted time : most people in the world use MS apps who are clutered as hell, that shows that most people are not really paying that much attention to this. I don't say that it's not desirable to clean up GUIs a bit, just that forcing people to change their habits in order to achieve this goal doesn't seem to me the best way to attract users. How much oversimplified MaCOS X is, it has not really attracted that many new users to MAC and a lot of people I know, who are not computer scientists far from it, actually find Windows easier than Mac. What I like in KDE is that it allows me to work the way I want. I don't want to be forced into a way of working just because someone somewhere thought it was better. Most of desktops do that and none actually succeed. So please do not go that way too.	Related Links  ·   Articles on KDE Official News  ·   Also by Richard Van Den Boom  ·   Contact author Thread Threshold: 10 comments 20 comments 30 comments 40 comments 50 comments 60 comments 70 comments 80 comments 90 comments 100 comments 110 comments 120 comments 130 comments 140 comments 150 comments 160 comments 170 comments 180 comments 190 comments 200 comments 300 comments 400 comments 500 comments 1000 comments
	The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whomever posted them. ( Reply ) Re: default filemanager by veru on Saturday 24/Feb/2007, @05:43 What you are writing about is network transparency, and Dolphin supports this, too (at least it is stated on their website, I haven't used it already). As I understand it, only webbrowsing, also viewing HTML sites, execute Javascript code, ... isn't supported. At least I hope I am right here, because these features are what I'm missing most when I have to work on a Windows desktop. [ Reply To This | View ] You're right but... by Richard Van Den Boom on Saturday 24/Feb/2007, @10:59 ... it's actually very nice to be on an HTML site, click on a link to a FTP site and keep on browsing on the same windows or in a tab. Having to fire up a new app, with a potentially different behaviour is annoying to me. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: You're right but... by illogic-al on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @07:01 you realize you can keep on using konqueror right? Right? [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Anonymous on Saturday 24/Feb/2007, @08:25 Currently there is no choice, either you use konqueror, i.e. all-in-one, or not. Koqueror is a power-user tool and hence a bit too much for "beginners" who just want to browse the web or manage their files. Hence Dolphin was introduced. Those that need and want konqueror, just continue using it. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Ben on Saturday 24/Feb/2007, @10:31 I disagree, beginners would have no trouble with Koqueror. They'll just ignore most of its features. on the other hand dolphin is much faster [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Aaron Seigo on Saturday 24/Feb/2007, @15:04 > beginners would have no trouble with Koqueror please tell universe that it messed up and to fix reality. thank you. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Kay on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @00:23 yeah right, I'll go tell my 9 and 7 year old. They have both FF and Konq installed on their respective system and both choose to use konq exclusively. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by illogic-al on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @07:09 And this has nothing to do with them seeing you use konq? Nothing to do with konq's opening links (mail, etc) by default in your desktop environment? Let me take a wild guess on this on, it's KDE. Oh, by the way we're talking about a file manager here, not a web browser. And konqueror, for the record, is still going to a) be around AND b) be doing both. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by mabinogi on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @23:07 It doesn't matter why they use it, the fact that they _can_ use it says plenty. You don't have to cripple things to make them easy [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Ben on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @01:37 I live in a famaly of permement beginners, and I've studied their software habits. What they don't understand they ignore* meaning functionality cannot hurt them unless it bloats the program or introduces a security risk. * There is one exception, if the computer asks them a question, something like this is the first time you've used this program, please custiomise it. This can confuse them and then they ask me for help. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by illogic-al on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @07:17 I don't live in a family of beginners. I won't pretend to be a studier of software habits. I have made a few observations on my short time here on planet earth with respect to people and computer programs. a) People don't like change b) People like simple interfaces However, if an interface is changed to be simpler then c) People don't like simple interfaces if it requires them to change how they work. Boggles my mind. The thing with dolphin being available is that "people" in group A will be happy since they can keep on using konq; people in group B will be happy since they get to use something simpler, and the rest of you in group C will be happy as you get to complain about something. Then you'll actually be even happier when you start using the apps and settle into groups A or B again. There'll even be a rare few who will, astonishingly, settle into groups A and B! i.e. switch to Dolphin and then not want to change. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Aaron Seigo on Saturday 24/Feb/2007, @15:04 > beginners would have no trouble with Koqueror please tell the universe that it messed up and to fix reality. thank you. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Universe on Saturday 24/Feb/2007, @18:19 I am fixing reality ever second sunday, but reality is broken beyond normal fixing. So I am going to replace it this summer, so you better hurry [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Richard Van Den Boom on Saturday 24/Feb/2007, @11:09 My wife is everything but a power user. She's an animator, having graduated from an art school, and she has no experience whatsoever with a computer. She had no difficulty at all browsing the web and managing her files with Konqueror, without any other input from me than the ones needed to understand what's a directory and what's a file, things you will always have to understand, whatever the file manager. Most people only copy/paste, create new, double-click to open a file in the appropriate app and move files and directories by drag and drop. They can manage easily any file manager as long as they find these options easily (which is the case with Konqueror). They will juste discard other options at first. Having the other options visible is not really an hindrance as far as I've seen and sometimes, it allows the most adventurous beginners to actually try the options they wouldn't even know to exist otherwise. The speed issue can be an argument, but on a recent computer, I don't find Konqueror's speed a trouble. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by illogic-al on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @07:21 > She's an animator, having graduated from an art school, and she has no experience whatsoever with a computer. That's how I know you're a) LYING, b) know nothing about "art school" and c) Probably don't have a wife. Cheers. P.S. They use macs a lot. Some institutions (non-universities mostly) even use PCs in the animation studios when they want to live dangerously. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Aaron Seigo on Saturday 24/Feb/2007, @15:07 > I can't see any reason why having a different app for > browsing and file management is preferable. for many it isn't. for many more it is. we're trying not to force our (or your) perception and preferences on them. we're also trying to optimize for the majority, nor are we trying to ship hobbled apps (people assume so little of the final state of dolphin *sigh*) so if you can't see a reason for different apps, rejoice. for those who do, now they can rejoice too. what a concept! it's like we dropped the chocolate in the peanutbutter! [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Richard Van Den Boom on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @00:03 >for many it isn't. for many more it is. And what are you basing this claim on? Any statistics, any poll that proves this? Or are you just basing this claim on what you think is the good thing, based on some personal experiences? My personal experiences, for what it's worth, tells that it does not really matter. The whole world statistics, showing that most people use Explorer which is at the same time a web browser and a file manager, seem to prove you wrong, beginners easily use the same app for both tasks. Well... anyway, I'm probably making too much noise about this, since the willingness seems to make both apps live, I guess there's not much point being worried. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by illogic-al on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @07:36 Of course we have the statistics, here they are: 66% of the universe agrees, adding dolphin as the default file manager will not cause KDE to implde upon itself. Happy? MY FAVORITE line of yours however has got to be this one: >Or are you just basing this claim on what you think is the good thing, based on some personal experiences? Much like you and you "wife" mayhaps? but this one comes pretty close too: >The whole world statistics, showing that most people use Explorer which is at the same time a web browser and a file manager, seem to prove you wrong, beginners easily use the same app for both tasks. Ah the whole world statistics. So because users on a different system, who are largely unaware of alternatives choose to actually Live with what they are presented with, it is automatically good. By your logic we can say that the jews absolutely loved their concentration camps. Good on yah sir. Good on yah. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Sergio Pistone on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @11:43 Are you really that stupid? [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by superstoned on Monday 26/Feb/2007, @02:01 Come on, guys, let's not fight about this. We're KDE users, and many of us (including me) don't understand why anybody would use Gnome - it's less powerfull, and the so-called usability we don't care about. But many people seem to do, no matter what we thing or what 'statistics' we quote or use. Now KDE is adding an option for those who prefer this 'usability', without crippling the userinterface or removing capabilities in any way. This will help some people use KDE, and won't make a difference to us. So WHY are we fighting about this?!?!? Please, a big hug, no more flames, and be happy... [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by R Liden on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @11:39 Well in all fairness by default is forcing a shift. I have been testing out an older stable version of Dolphin in the repos and reading Dolphins progress. It could be a good thing, but I'm still dubious. The interface seems overly simplistic and slightly lacking (no up arrow to navigate up and out of the directory tree). I really don't want to see a shift towards: 1. Gnome UI -- because "simplicity" is the popular thing this year (just say no to the sparse wide fat huge buttons of gnome). 2. Firing up several applications that each perform a unique task -- This is especially a concern. I don't want to return to the thinking of yesteryear where we compartmentalize resource locations and functionality. I like that, now, I can edit files using Kate over SSH. I like that the remote server I'm working on is seamless to me. I don't want to fire up Kftpgrabber or FileZilla, a web browser, a minimalist file manager, a graphic viewer, etc. Even with that concern I'll keep an open mind. After all an open mind is what drew me from gnome to KDE. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by superstoned on Monday 26/Feb/2007, @02:03 KDE is adding an option for those who prefer this 'usability', without crippling the userinterface or removing capabilities in any way. This will help some people use KDE, and won't make a difference to us who don't like it - Konqi won't go or lose anything. So let's assume the open mind doesn't go, allright? [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by Tim on Sunday 25/Feb/2007, @02:42 I totally agree! In every point. And I have a question concerning this stupid folder dialogue. Can I switch back to the normal file dialogue? Why shouldn't I see what's IN the folders? I can't understand this design decision. It's far the weakest "feature" in the whole KDE. It's annoying each and every time I have to select a folder/directory. Tim P.S.: What's great in konqueror is this great symmetry. If you break it, you break konqueror. I like konqueror for being such versatile. I don't have to learn a lot of different user interfaces for the same actions. And more: I can do what I want to do. No artificial limitations. Exception: this stupid folder dialogue. What I'm missing since switching to KDE 2 is the possibility to select multiple items on HTML pages like I can in the other protocols like file, ftp, sftp or so. [ Reply To This | View ] Re: default filemanager by superstoned on Monday 26/Feb/2007, @02:08 the only thing changing in KDE 4 will be this: The current 'filebrowsing' kpart in konqueror will be have a new 'shell', called dolphin. It will be the default filemanager. It's a bit like we get a second konqi, but then a very limited (filebrowsing) one, meant for the basics of filemanagement, and the old konqi will still be available. [ Reply To This | View ]   The Fine Print: The previous comments are owned by whomever posted them. ( Reply )

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