The Fine Print: The following comments
are owned by whomever posted them.
( Reply )
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @00:25
|
I mean like this:
windows.png
622KB (637714 bytes)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @10:06
|
Close, but one or two bars too many.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Leo S on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @10:18
|
Exactly. Yours is a little cluttered for my taste though :) All those buttons have keyboard shortcuts, and you can search google and any other search engines right from the address bar. The only thing you need is the back and forward buttons, because there is no easy way to skip back multiple pages using the keyboard. This gives plenty of space for the address bar.
iceweasel.png
12KB (13053 bytes)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @10:45
|
Yes, but see how much empty real estate there is on the grab-bar.
It's ready for developement.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Alex E on Friday 30/Mar/2007, @15:49
|
<ALT>-<left> and <ALT>-<right> correspond to back and forwards. Easy enough on most keyboards, and amazingly easy on some laptops, particularly the smaller ones. Works in dang near every browser, too.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by strider on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @02:22
|
I agree. Believe it or not that's the *only* reason I use Firefox instead of Konqueror as a web browser.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by logixoul on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @04:06
|
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35795
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @05:06
|
Pending more than 6 years.
If it doesn't happen with KDE 4, it will never happen.
The Oxygen team must look into this, it's both about usability and estetics.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Thiago Macieira on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @08:44
|
This goes a lot deeper than Oxygen and even Usability.
It might require changes in Qt. I am not sure.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Aaron Seigo on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @20:41
|
that's actually not a domain within which the oxygen project works.
while i'm all for simplified toolbars that highlight just the most used and critical items, shoving icons and menus into one big line is perhaps generally questionable =)
it could be one of those configurable things, i suppose, but it would require a fair amount of hacking. for how much benefit? *shrug*
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @21:48
|
For the benefit of at least 3 users on this thread alone.
You could do it in KDE 1, look at this:
vol10_1x_kfm.png
271KB (277724 bytes)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Karol on Friday 09/Mar/2007, @05:50
|
For the benefit of at least 3 users on this thread alone.
now 4,
Personally i found menu bar as a great place for bookmark folders.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by mactalla on Friday 09/Mar/2007, @06:30
|
At least 5 people.
At least with certain screen dimensions I like the MacOS style of having the menu bar at the top of the screen, but even then I have it on the same bar as the system tray, pager, shortcuts, etc.
Given a different screen size (here at work) I would like to toss the menu and toolbar on the same row.
Vertical screen real estate is in high demand on these wide screen displays...
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Vide on Saturday 10/Mar/2007, @05:00
|
at least one on the other hand doesn't find that this is something even close to being useful. 2, counting aseigo (I suppose :)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Saturday 10/Mar/2007, @05:49
|
asiego counts as an infinite number, the cause is lost, lost....
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Aaron Seigo on Saturday 10/Mar/2007, @09:02
|
heh ... not infinite; comensurate to participation, perhaps, and certainly within a reasonable distance to the origin. the biggest problem with me is i try and get rational argument and bit of big picture thinking into the mix. that sucks. it's much easier when you can line up 5 like minded people and bend the will of a project ;)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Sunday 11/Mar/2007, @03:12
|
Actually this is about reading pages, documents, on screen like it was on paper.
I don't want any unnecessary bars or borders to obstruct my reading enjoyment.
Preferably I also would like to be able to move the window (paper) around on the
desktop by grabbing it anywhere on the page, holding down a mouse button.
Also move the page inside the window by holding down another mouse button. (Or chord)
Who would want a frigging stereo on top of his document? That's like having a
frigging laser on top of a shark, and who would want that? Dr Who? No! Dr No?
No, Dr Evil, thats who!
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by mactalla on Saturday 10/Mar/2007, @07:44
|
Fortunately for you both, it already provides you with all you need/want, then. I'm happy for you.
I suppose it's similar to me finding the keyboard switching globally or per application not even close to useful. But thankfully I do have the option for per-window. So I'm happy, and so is anyone who prefers a different configuration. (That option in the Keyboard Tool was, incidently, the deciding factor for me to choose KDE over Gnome when I first switched to Linux).
We all have our preferences, and by permitting one thing we don't need to limit another. So whether or not we ever get our wish, will in no way harm you or your preferred setup. :)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Martin Stubenschrott on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @04:19
|
I also agree, wanted to post this as a wish to bugs.kde.org, but then I think it's a Qt limitation, which they really can't workaround. But it would definitly be very usefull to save this wasted space.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Torsten Rahn on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @05:19
|
What you are perceiving as ugly is not perceived as ugly by most people.
It's a common concept called "white space" or "negative space".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_space_(visual_arts)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @05:35
|
No.
This is about noise and information. The empty space here is annoying,
it acts as noise to my information gathering. It could instead be filled
with information, adding to the information content.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Arnomane on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @05:52
|
If you want to save even screenspace of menu bars in all of your (KDE-) apps, enable the Mac-like menu bar on top in KControl.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @06:18
|
Best thing would be to have all bars autohide like Kicker.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by nick on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @06:27
|
toolbars are useles for people who know about 'Configure shortcuts' dialog.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Torsten Rahn on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @16:36
|
You didn't read the article, did you? That empty space is what you need in some places to make stuff look good and _not_cluttered_ . I'm not opposing to make it configurable in some ways. But please acknowledge common usability findings and decades if not hundreds of years of experience that designers have gathered.
What you are aiming for is obviously a setup for somebody who wants to squeeze the last bit of efficiency out of each pixel. That's a good thing for you as a person, but keep in mind that it might not be the best for everyone.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @22:18
|
Still no.
The toolbar is a tool, not art. The headline of the article is: "White space (visual arts)"
Form over function sucks, function over form rules.
(My fault is to write this here since it seems to be the concern of Qt, not of Oxygen.
You could do it in KDE 1)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by Torsten Rahn on Friday 09/Mar/2007, @02:50
|
> Still no. The toolbar is a tool, not art.
A tool - especially if it's in wide use - is always subject to considerations of look and feel. Due to the sheer importance of look and feel in today's world you've got to make compromises between better looks, better usability and flexibility.
What you obviously think about when talking about usability is efficient and comfortable usage of a kind of poweruser who doesn't care about esthetics. However that's only one small part of the whole broad spectrum of users KDE supports.
> My fault is to write this here since it seems to be the concern
> of Qt, not of Oxygen. You could do it in KDE 1)
I remember someone from Trolltech having said that it was dropped because nobody really used it. And worse: I have seen many people who "lost" their menubar in Windows and KDE 1 because they managed to move it in some way out of sight.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by neurol23 on Friday 09/Mar/2007, @03:45
|
if menubar could have been "lost" in windows, then it was a windows bug.
it's sufficient to implement the functionality. no need to replicate the bug also ;-)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Friday 09/Mar/2007, @11:23
|
"a kind of poweruser who doesn't care about esthetics"
I'm not a poweruser (whatever that is) and I do care about esthetics.
If you had looked at my screenshot you would have seen ample amounts of
white space, but in the content where it belongs.
I just don't think an empty space in the upper right-hand corner of every
application is good esthetics or good usability.
"someone from Trolltech having said"
I am sure Matthias Ettrich can hack this during a coffee break or some such.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by soc on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @07:03
|
I think that's one of the most important reason i neither use epiphany nor konqueror, but firefox.
In my opinion we don't need 90% of the options to configure the toolbar, we need just ONE function to make the menubar behave like many people want and expect it.
There's a screenshot of my firefox in the attachments.
I would never suggest configuring konqueror like this as a default, but the people who want to configure it, should be able to do it.
firefox_kde.png
62KB (64099 bytes)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by nobody on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @07:31
|
You can remove the menubar in konqueror (it's set to the keyboard shortcut ctrl+M by default) and disable/enable whatever toolbars you like, so you actually can make konqueror look like that pretty easily. Saving the session so that it starts up with the menubar disabled is kind of tough (since the session save option is on the menu), but if you temporarily put the option in a toolbar or as a keyboard shortcut you can do it.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by reihal on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @10:01
|
I don't want to remove the bars completely, I want combine them to one bar.
That includes the grab-bar too, only one bar at the top is enough.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by kollum on Thursday 08/Mar/2007, @14:52
|
You probably mean something like that ! (see atached screen shot, which is in full screen mode)
You have to right click a tool bar an choose "configure tool bars" in the bottom.
then, add and remove what you whant to be on you "one line" pannel.
Finaly, go to "configure", then toolbars, and unselect everything but the one you customised.
use ctrl + m to hide the menu.
YOU'RE DONE
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by soc on Friday 09/Mar/2007, @13:33
|
I already tried the hint with the menu, but I just don't like it.
- I want to be able to access the menu without activating it and deactivating it after use. There a so many icons for doing useless things, but this one is missing.
- It looks like crap, even the adressbar isn't vertically centered. There is way to much vertical spacing, but no horizontal spacing at all. This is due to the fact, that you can't make the icons smaller than 22*22 in the gui of konqueror, which wastes screenspace and looks horrible.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Nice looking, but...
by soc on Friday 09/Mar/2007, @13:52
|
I have to correct myself:
- I just saw that if kcontrol is installed you can set the icon size from there for all programs, including konqueror.
- I installed the QtCurve theme, now many things look quite good, compared to the default ones provided with kde 3.5.
Sorry for my mistakes!
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
The Fine Print: The previous
comments are owned by whomever posted them.
( Reply )
|
|
![[KDE Dot News]](http://www.kde.org/dot/Images/kdedotnews.gif)
