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Re: GNOME got at least 19 more projects than us
by Daniel Molkentin on Thursday 12/Apr/2007, @06:35
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Could we please stop this "theirs is longer" whining? Plus your math is completely nonsense, e.g. Maemo is only related to GNOME in that it uses GTK+, big deal. Sames goes for Inkscape and most other projects.
That said, KDE got quite some projects in nother projects such as Ubuntu. KDEs strength is to be make people work as one community, and as such, we got a lot of projects assigned. How about doing your first step into something productive instead of whining about the unfairness of the world?
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by Phase II on Thursday 12/Apr/2007, @08:01
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I think the original poster has got a point if you refine the statement:
It's not that the Gnome project gets more projects assigned, it's that KDE-related projects and applications are not allowed to participate independently because they are seen as part of KDE, when sometimes they only use the kdelibs or profit from KDE infrastructure. So this actual benefit turns into a real drawback.
KOffice (they kind of accepted it now) are seen as "KDE", as is Amarok, while in comparison there's a bunch of gtk music players which got accepted, one a xmms spinoff, while a player with the scope of Amarok is being left out and has to fight with the whole of KDE for projects.
In comparison other projects like KWord, Karbon14, KMyMoney or Kopete also haven't got the slightest chance of being accepted independently which probably frustrates some developers (and users). So they won't get a certain guaranteed share of Google SOC help which would relate to their status as a successful, much deployed free software project -- only because they are (seen as?) KDE apps (the definition of that is not really clear btw).
With regard to KDE Google's selections are a mystery.
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by shamaz on Thursday 12/Apr/2007, @08:33
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My vision is that kde and google have A LOT of gsoc projects. Who cares about numbers ? Everyone wins !
Maybe in the future, when kde apps will be completely cross-platform, google will change his mind about how to classify mentoring organization. Most of the projects you are talking about ("KWord, Karbon14, KMyMoney or Kopete") are mostly used by linux kde users. I think this cannot be said about gaim or inkscape for example (lots of Win32 or xfce users).
That being said, I'm not really sure being an independant organization guarantee more gsoc projects... so please stop "spitting in the soup" (like we say in France)
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by Louis on Thursday 12/Apr/2007, @10:28
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"so please stop "spitting in the soup" (like we say in France)"
That's a good one. In the US, we say "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by Robert on Friday 13/Apr/2007, @02:10
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Don't you US guys rather say "please stop pooping at the party"? ;-)
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by Louis on Friday 13/Apr/2007, @06:31
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Right, we don't like party-poopers. Aren't languages wonderful!
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by Debian User on Thursday 12/Apr/2007, @13:54
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Please don't assume bad things of others, when you didn't check the most basic things.
It was KDE's decision to not have duplicated efforts in applying as many entities. As such Koffice, Amarok, etc. specifically themselves decided to NOT make their separate offers. Nothing about being "not allowed to".
So KDE having only one set of offers is all about KDE being a united community with a huge amount of consensus, making this possible.
You can also trust Google to NOT judge the stuff about this much for Gnome and that much for KDE. It's based on the candidates info, the task usefulness to people, and more stuff.
KDE as a project is a whole better off when it gets to be a part of the decision process and one strong partner. Not to forget, be sure that Google will certainly monitor how well things work out, and e.g. KOffice alone may not be able to provide the Mentoring infrastructure as good as the whole of KDE.
And obviously Windows is VERY unfairly neglected by Google by your reasoning, it must have at least twice as much users as KDE ;-) and yet barely a project, so what's wrong? Could it be that Gnome can be enhanced in more areas, being technically a few years behind?
Yours,
Kay
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by Allan Sandfeld on Friday 13/Apr/2007, @02:04
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<blockquote>It was KDE's decision to not have duplicated efforts in applying as many entities. As such Koffice, Amarok, etc. specifically themselves decided to NOT make their separate offers. Nothing about being "not allowed to".</blockquote>
Nope.. KOffice asked if they could apply separately, but was denied.
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by Brad Hards on Friday 13/Apr/2007, @03:23
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KOffice was denied last year. This year, a decision was made to be part of KDE, and not try to split.
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by Thomas Zander on Monday 16/Apr/2007, @08:50
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As brad pointed out; KOffice has not applied separately, there is not even a business behind KOffice to do so. Frankly; joining forces gives us a bigger gain as you don't need to have KOffice developers to mentor KOffice specific projects.
To be clear; there are for sure people that will have suggested to apply separately, but in the end the idea never made it.
ps. I'm a KOffice core developer ;)
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by Phase II on Friday 13/Apr/2007, @02:42
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"Please don't assume bad things of others, when you didn't check the most basic things."
First, I don't assume bad things of others, namely Google. As it should be clear, it is their competition and they are free whom to chose and whom not. They don't need to justify their choices. It's rather the general penalization of a certain bunch of projects because of their strong ties to a certain toolkit/framework, while without this these projects, and this is the point, would be allowed to apply independently, and probably would have a high stand at the selection process doing so.
"It was KDE's decision to not have duplicated efforts in applying as many entities. As such Koffice, Amarok, etc. specifically themselves decided to NOT make their separate offers. Nothing about being "not allowed to"."
Secondly, please recheck _your_ facts. Amarok was not chosen and KOffice wanted to participate since at least last SoC, but didn't try because the message from Google was to not consider KOffice as independent organization. Also I'm not sure that there is a really broad consensus among all KDE developers or if there a some high-profile applications which would like to try their luck on their own.
And whether KDE and its projects benefit more or less from being seen as a single entity, regardless of whether they could apply independently, is highly debatable and not easy to answer -- to cut this discussion short.
"And obviously Windows is VERY unfairly neglected by Google by your reasoning, it must have at least twice as much users as KDE ;-) and yet barely a project, so what's wrong? Could it be that Gnome can be enhanced in more areas, being technically a few years behind?"
Please quote properly. This assumption was done by the original thread starter, not by me.
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by Cyrille Berger on Friday 13/Apr/2007, @07:24
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There is no consensus among KOffice developers wether we should or should not apply on our own, we are divided on the question. Some thinks we might get more projects to KOffice this way, personnaly I am rather skeptical. And I am also perfectly happy to share with KDE the burden of administration management of the SoC.
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Re: There's a sort of bias
by she on Saturday 14/Apr/2007, @16:58
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If you dont know if there is a consensus within KDE,
then please make this clear from the START.
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Re: GNOME got at least 19 more projects than us
by Christian on Friday 13/Apr/2007, @03:48
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Well SoC is about developer proposals and not number of users (assuming one accept your assumption about KDE vs GNOME user statistics). If you compare the total number of GNOME proposals (174) and KDE proposals (213) and then the number of slots given GNOME (29) and slots given KDE (40) you could say that GNOME got the unfair treatment due to getting a lower percentage of proposals approved compared to KDE -> 16.6% vs 18.7%.
That said I think the comparison breaks down no matter how you look at it. A lot of proposals in both the GNOME and KDE list will benefit the other desktop almost equally as they funnel effort into shared technologies.
Christian
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