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Re: an article request
by Pino Toscano on Tuesday 24/Apr/2007, @10:51
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> because honestly it is a nosense situation to see that for example FIREFOX is
> better integrated to windows xp then to KDE
It is also a nonsense complaining with us. Please report to Firefox, thanks.
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Re: an article request
by andre on Tuesday 24/Apr/2007, @15:11
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You are right here. However, it hits you with a certain surprise that key applications as firefox do not integrate well enough.
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Re: an article request
by regeya on Tuesday 24/Apr/2007, @19:14
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Not a KDE dev myself, but I'll repeat what was already said: Firefox isn't a KDE app, therefore not the responsibility of KDE.
Want a slap in the face? Run Firefox on OS X. That's a major surprise. :-> I've yet to get the Firefox Quicksilver plugin to work properly.
But back to KDE: I agree, I wish there were more work done to integrate GTK+ apps into KDE. But short of people patching GTK+ apps to work more closely with KDE, what should be done, eh? GTK+ apps also tend to be GNOME apps, which is a similar-yet-completely-different desktop designed to replace KDE, with some work going into integrating Firefox into GNOME (though it doesn't integrate well with GNOME either.) I don't think you'll see a KDE-friendly GNOME anytime soon, but that's my own opinion from the perspective of an outsider ;-D
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Re: an article request
by Henry Miller on Wednesday 25/Apr/2007, @10:02
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The point of Freedesktop.org is to allow Gnome and KDE to work together where we can. HAL was created with the aim of making something useful for both desktops. Dbus is based on dcop, but the goal wasn't just to improve dbus, but to make something more useful for Gnome. There are many other little things going on there.
KDE and GNOME disagree on things like keyboard shortcuts. Both sides of excellent reasons behind their defaults, so it is unlikely we will ever come together.
Toolkit issues (gtk vs qt) are trivial to work around. A lot of effort is going in in this. Have you noticed that copy and paste works a lot better between applications now? That is because freedesktop.org defined how it should work, and the toolkits all do the same thing now. Expect to see more in the future - but only where there is an agreed upon best way. When there are two equally good ways of doing something we are better off if the two desktops go their own way (yet attempt to work together in everything else)
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Re: an article request
by superstoned on Tuesday 24/Apr/2007, @11:26
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There is the GTK-QT theme, and there are ways to easilly use the KDE filedialogs in those applications (note, from gnome, there are no ways I know off to do the reverse). Aside from that, tell me what specific things you expect from the KDE developers? Most work for integration will have to come from the firefox (or other app) ppl...
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Re: an article request
by elo on Tuesday 24/Apr/2007, @13:56
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"Aside from that, tell me what specific things you expect from the KDE developers? Most work for integration will have to come from the firefox (or other app) ppl..."
integrating with KDE4 GTK-QT for example.
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/gtk-qt
Ubuntu uses Gnome, gnome apps are popular. Also users from windows now Thunderbird, Firefox etc and will use them. So it is important to show gtk in KDE as much consistient as it is possible.
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Re: an article request
by superstoned on Wednesday 25/Apr/2007, @06:14
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integrating with KDE4 GTK-QT for example.
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/gtk-qt
Yes, this theme is written by a KDE engineer to let Gnome apps fit in the KDE environment. You can find it (if installed) in Kcontrol: style and look of Gnome apps -> let Gnome apps use my KDE style. It's lovely, that's why I mentioned it... and it would be indeed great if it where ported to KDE 4.
Anyway, I wouldn't say this is something that is lacking - it's already there, not ported yet but there is no reason to not expect it to be ported, I guess. And such a theme doesn't exist on the gnome side, you can't let your KDE apps look like gnome apps. That's why Trolltech created the clearlooks-for-Qt4 style, to make KDE apps look like gnome apps. Qt 4 even automatically reverses ok/cancel button order when run in Gnome (again, gnome apps don't do such a thing). Trolltech also made it possible to plug GTK code in KDE/Qt apps, maybe in the future KDE apps will use gnome filedialogs (poor users...) when running in Gnome.
In other words, most integrative work comes from KDE/Trolltech already.
Now, as I already mentioned gtk-qt, anything I did NOT mention, and which is NOT being done, and which CAN be done by KDE in a reasonable time, which you would like to see?
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Re: an article request
by Eike Hein on Tuesday 24/Apr/2007, @23:52
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> there are ways to easilly use the KDE filedialogs in those applications (note, from gnome, there are no ways I know off to do the reverse).
Ages ago KDE published some proof-of-concept work to allow GTK+ apps to access the Qt main event loop, allowing them to use KDE/Qt dialogs: http://dot.kde.org/1073668213/
Looks like nobody was interested.
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Re: an article request
by alex on Wednesday 25/Apr/2007, @03:19
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And now, Qt4 uses the glib main loop.
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Re: an article request
by ac on Wednesday 25/Apr/2007, @04:25
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no it doesn't. qt4 still has its own event loop. but you can now integrate a glib eventloop into a qt4 application.
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Re: an article request
by Anonymous Ferret on Saturday 28/Apr/2007, @07:37
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*no it doesn't.*
Yes it does. Copy and pasted from qt 4.2 configure script:
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-no-glib............ Do not compile Glib support.
+ -glib............... Compile Glib support.
---
Glib support means, using the Glib event loop
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Re: an article request
by djouallah mimoune on Wednesday 25/Apr/2007, @02:58
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fine
i had got a lot of expectation from the next KDE, i thought it will be independant from any particular OS,any particular language, independant from engines( xine, gstreamer etc)and even of course it use QT as the main toolkit, other toolkits as GTK, java or whatever will get the same love. i.e; integration using some open standard
we users, we just want applicationn we don't even care/know what is the toolkit used, we are just fed up with all those stupid Kde vs Gnome, GPL QT vs LGPL GTK
ok perhaps i am just a stupid dreamer.
friendly
@superstoned hi man, opensuse rock
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Re: an article request
by ac on Wednesday 25/Apr/2007, @05:04
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well, thats just you.
what you want is totaly impossible. where did you ever read kde4 would do this!?
users should learn that allready care. they want features. features don't come out of nowhere....
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Re: an article request
by andre on Wednesday 25/Apr/2007, @06:03
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I would be very happy to have GTK apps to support the KDe toplevel menu mode.
Anyway, on kubuntu feisty you don't really see a difference anymore. It is like people see a crystal theme and think its a KDE app etc.
The about window is different for GTK apps but that's all. And the rest is integration.
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Re: an article request
by superstoned on Wednesday 25/Apr/2007, @06:08
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Sorry, but do you have any idea what a toolkit is? it's like bricks, you use to build an application. If you want to change the type of bricks a house is build upon, you must rebuild the house. So is Qt in KDE - you can't remove it, that's just totally impossible.
KDE 4 is independant of a OS, sound engines, language, hardware, but not of it's toolkit - that's just not possible.
KDE has gone out of it's way to integrate gnome apps in KDE - Qt can indeed use the glib event loop so you can use gtk code in KDE apps, Qt 4 automatically reverses the button order (cancel/OK) depending on it's environment, non-kde apps can easilly use the KDE file dialog (so when they detect they're running in KDE, they could use that) and there is the GTK-QT theme which hopefully will be ported to KDE 4, which lets Gnome apps use the KDE style, colors and icons. Qt even has a style similair to the Gnome Clearlooks style, because the gnome ppl haven't offered something like the GTK-QT style to integrate KDE apps in Gnome.
So KDE has done it's part, imho. It won't solve the flamewars, ppl just love to hate things, but I don't think end-users ever really cared about the difference between KDE and Gnome apps. On windows, you have far more styles and weird looking applications (eg compare IE7 with MS Word 2007 with MS Outlook 2007 with Media player 2007 with the latest messenger with notepad and you've got such a mess it's hard to believe - still windows users never complain. Same with mac, which has had a pletora of different styles in mac OS X, nobody cared).
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Re: an article request
by djouallah mimoune on Wednesday 25/Apr/2007, @09:14
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eh ok i am not a developer, but i know what is a toolkit, i even used java swing when i was at university.
suppose i am new ISV to linux desktop, i want to develop a closed source software under linux and i don't want to pay trolltech for using the commercial licence for whatever reason ( anyway he already don't pay microsoft for developping software under windows) so what's the answear ?
i see KDE, as THE DESKTOP for linux, not one of many DE, so any enhassement to make GTK even better integrated it is welcome, after all it is a free software.
firendly
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Re: an article request
by ac on Thursday 26/Apr/2007, @00:04
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windows development isn't free. you have to buy a windows license at least. if you seriously want to make windows apps you also will buy visual studio, and if you have more than a hand full of developers you will pay for msdn.
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Re: an article request
by Henry Miller on Thursday 26/Apr/2007, @07:46
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For any non-trivial project the effort of doing what qt does automatically will cost more (as in $$$ you pay your developers to create the same thing) than then buying qt licenses.
Developers know this and keep telling non-developers this, but it never seems to sink in. No I don't work for trolltech. I am a developer though, and trolltech has done large parts of UI work that I find boring. (OTOH I get excited about individual bits on a wire, where I'm sure the trolltech guys would be bored out of their mind)
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