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KDE EDU
by Martin on Wednesday 12/Sep/2007, @14:15
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I understand that KDE Edu packages are there. This is a type of software that is coded, software that is sold and requested on the market. But is it really used? I mean the children are supposed to work with these games but educational stuff is boring and how will you lock down that children don't do something else with KDE. I mean as a ten year old I coded programs. Given the overcomplex task of entering programming today, with all the svn, complex documentation and toolkits I wonder what you would recommend a 11 year old today. How can he or she code KDE?
Why do you assume that children like simple stuff? Simple memory games with no real learning factor. What is your educational concept behind it?
My impression always was that Education software is like tomes. You want it but you don't use it. |
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Re: KDE EDU
by Anonymous on Wednesday 12/Sep/2007, @15:03
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* You might not be typical - not all 10 year olds want to code programs.
* It's not just "simple stuff" for children.
* "is it really used?" - did you even read the rest of the comments here? "Some apps from KDE-EDU are used at some brazilian educational projects." "Kalzium was pretty handy last semester when I took Chemistry." "I use KWordQuiz as an important part of my language studies." Again, it's not (only) children using this stuff, and it's not (only) simple stuff involved.
What's your "educational concept" behind saying that "simple memory games" do no good? Obviously there's more to learning a language (for instance) than memorizing vocab, but I'm sure you can agree that that's a big part of it, and one of the more boring parts at that. Isn't it nice that someone else has taken the trouble to write software to help with that, and gives it away freely?
"I wonder what you would recommend a 11 year old today" - OK, Mr "I coded programs as a ten year old", what would *you* recommend? Nothing says that 10 year olds are going to be "coding KDE", but there's more tools now than ever to introduce kids to programming.
Yet another example of a "is this really any good" whiner... if you've got useful feedback on the "educational concepts" that could improve specific software, then improve it! If you've got ideas for something new, implement them!
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Re: KDE EDU
by Martin on Thursday 13/Sep/2007, @11:10
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Difficult questions, I mean the point is that we learned a lesson. In the past some actions were perceived as very difficult such as calculation, algebra, logic. But then came AI and we understood that the difficult and complex thing is what we perceive as easy. No wonder, as we are not designed for these tasks. Same for memorizing. You can't avoid it and the real important task it to forget what you don't need. Computers can do "the other stuff". Or go to Africa and find out how much you took for granted and what makes the difference.
I wrote several learning programs but then I found out that the pedagogical concept behind flashcards was bad. And I didn't want to use them myself. Or think of the 70th programmed instructions. KDE stuff performs pretty well in the eLearning landscape. It is possible to learn a language in 3 month but not with education software.
Of course educational software programs are important for schools in a kind of procurement checklist fashion. However, it does not make sense to use them and children will find them boring. Of course, in many nations of the south learning means memorizing.
Good concepts from my perspective are tools which assist children to learn. Tools children want to use. Programming in 1988 was simple. You sit down and write your Hello World in minutes. Programming today is overcomplex.
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Re: KDE EDU
by Soap on Thursday 13/Sep/2007, @12:30
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First work with script languages - Perl, Python, Ruby, etc. (C64 Basic anyone?).
Then work up to more complicated & compiled languages (eg. c/c++)
Add in make-files as things get more complicated.
As you go, learn whatever graphics/sound/data-management stuff you want to.
Unless you want to contribute to a group project, cvs/svn/git, and a bunch of stuff that might make programming harder to get into, isn't necessary.
Much of learning IS memorizing.
Basic arithmetic -> 2+2=4,
vocabulary -> canard=duck,
spelling/phonics -> "ce" makes a "s" sound, there/they're/their
geography -> Canada is north of USA
history -> Hitler is responsible for some aweful stuff
Physics -> F=ma
mathematics -> all those axioms
grammar -> conjugation of verbs, pronouns, types of words...
sports -> you're not allowed to touch a soccer ball with your hand (in most cases)
...
Even in cases where memorizing isn't necessary, it saves a lot of time.
There are also other apps in KEDU:
Kalzium - chemistry, impressive molecular modelling
Marble - a globe with satelite imagery (recently added 2D models)
Step - a 2D physics simulator, impressive stuff
Kig - interactive geometry, excellent for visualizing complex 2D geometry.
...
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Re: KDE EDU
by Arnomane on Wednesday 12/Sep/2007, @17:19
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I use KStars on a regular basis (beside a very small pocket book of stars).
Why do I use such an "irrelevant" application? Well I like astronomy and I love the dark night sky with the milky way across my head. It is a shame that most people even don't know how the night sky looks like cause of light pollution.
Ever wanted to fetch the stars from the sky for a girl? ;-) Previous to your next date with a girl run Kstars and look for some romantic things you can show her later...
So how can you think that Kstars is a children-only application, how can you think that none uses it seriously?
Ah and thee are some much more edu-software. A quick function plotter such KmPlot (provided by KDE-Edu) can safe your day if you have to do some math (but don't have expensive complicated expert apps like Maple/Matematica around).
Or the vocabulary trainer or or...
I'd even say many of the apps are educational apps primarily designed for adult persons and not for kids, because they don't have a silly "kindergarden user interface".
So go and actually test these apps. You will be surprised that they're totally different from your expectations.
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Re: KDE EDU
by from Brazil on Wednesday 12/Sep/2007, @21:50
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:-o
ok..... 10 years old,.... coding.. C++
and whith 20 y.o. building a rocket to Mars
and with 30 y.o. discovering the world outside his (or her) house.
Maybe Quake4 could fill this educational special needs.
huuunnnnn... why not a Kuake4, the first KDE fsp.. :-)
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Re: KDE EDU
by Anne-Marie Mahfouf on Wednesday 12/Sep/2007, @23:31
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This software is coded mainly by parents or teachers or students themselves. All of it was started to fullfill a need. I started KLettres to get my 4 years old prepared to read for example. Since then I have heard that illettrate adults also use it. Are you in the above category (parents or teachers or students)?
Another point: not sure about your background but what most European and American people easily forget is that KDE is world wide and Education is more needed in some countries. I happen to be involved in a charity which motto is about education.
Our programs are learning helping tools or educational games (hmm, isn't that concept of educational games or mind-training games heavily used for the Wii?)
About making kids code aged 11: well this is not our objective. We have KTurtle which is based on Logo, some teachers use it but that's it. Of course if you coded aged 11 I can see why you see our tools uninteresting...
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Re: KDE EDU
by Benoit Jacob on Thursday 13/Sep/2007, @01:33
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Very interesting, I didn't know that KLettres was used by illiterate adults.
Of course, being myself a proud contributor to KDE-Edu, I disagree with Martin when he says that education apps are useless. Both the apps for children (KLettres...), and the apps for students (Kig...), are very useful IMO.
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Re: KDE EDU
by MelonDrift on Sunday 16/Mar/2008, @10:46
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Wow, what a bunch of bunk!!
What is learning if not repetition of known factors using variable inputs? (didn't understand that one? figure it out, it's meant for you)
I am running KDE Unbuntu (Gutsy Gibbon) on a 1996 Intel 32 bit motherboard with a 550MHz CPU. Sure, it's a little slow, but is way more friendly and stable than any of microsofts distro's ever were or could be. (Kudos to the worldwide Linux software production family!!)
I have KStars, G-Comprise, KStitch, KTechLab, ChildsPlay, LinuxLetters&Numbers, TuxPaint, and a multitude of other games, videos, and internet links for youth entertainment and education. All of which are enjoyed and loved by my three nieces and two year old nephew.
Nobody can put a price on !CLEAN! education! The packages released through the KDE distro's are the highest quality, most friendly, and use masterable skills and concepts suited for !EVERYBODY!!
To all involved in releasing such high quality material I give my deepest gratitude and respect. The world will never be able to repay you for the things you do to make computing and learning a better experience for everyone!! And I wait with baited breath for the wonders that are yet to be. 8-)
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