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Re: KDE4
by sebas on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @07:16
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The desktop is themable, but you'll need also more than one theme to be able to change it.
And sure, Plasma at this point is less customisable than KDE 3.5's kdesktop. It's completely new and will gain more features over time.
As to the speed of resizing applets, that's not a big deal right now, as it's fast enough -- it doesn't need to be completely smooth to make the desktop workable, it just has to work. You don't resize applets all the time.
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Re: KDE4
by T. J. Brumfield on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @16:13
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I'm excited that Plasma will make it easier in the future to customize the desktop even further. However, because it less customizable today, I'm sticking with 3.5 today, and I imagine many will. That isn't a knock on the development of KDE 4, just a reflection of the current state.
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Re: KDE4
by Aaron J. Seigo on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @16:53
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yeah, i fully expect some people will do this. you can, of course, still run other kde4 apps in your 3.5 so you don't have to give up everything. kde is more than a desktop environment and things are welded together, after all =)
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Re: KDE4
by Richlv on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @06:02
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this is probably a trivial question, but :
i expect running kde4 apps on a kde3 desktop to increase memory usage, right (for kde4 libs not present before) ?
if so, what would be an approximate estimate, how much additional ram would require first launched kde4 application on a kde3 desktop compared to kde4 desktop ?
(note that i explicitly noted first app ;) )
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Re: KDE4
by jos poortvliet on Tuesday 08/Jan/2008, @02:32
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well, I can't give a precise approximation, but it won't be very much. I'd say 20 mb, 30 mb... something like that. Maybe even less.
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Re: KDE4
by whatever noticed on Tuesday 08/Jan/2008, @03:24
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I'm using kde4 applications with kde 3.5 on a 1.5 ghz 256 mb ram laptop and don't notice any slow down of my computer experience because of that.
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Re: KDE4
by Bobby on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @10:20
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If I understood it correctly then the present taskbar won't be as it is now in RC2 on release. Aaron at one point said that it's just provisional and that much time wasn't invested in the present taskbar. He said that that would change by release.
If you are expecting the functionality of KDE 3.5x then I would advise you to have it install alongside 4.0. I personally haven't decided to make a total shift until all my favourite apps have been ported to 4.0 and working at least as good as they are on KDE 3.5x but I will certainly be using KDE 4.0 on a daily basis.
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Re: KDE4
by ne... on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @11:06
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Well, for starters this is will be the first major KDE release that I have not compiled from source. Suse has spoilt me (-: I love all that black. I wish I could have more. The only two things I miss now are a weather applet/plasmoid and the applications' real name on the KDE 3 style menu. I hate the generic naming of apps. I spent a lot of time learning what the different applications were to now have to switch to generic names like 'document viewer' and 'image viewer'. Call them by their given names - Okular! Gwenview! Be proud! You deserve it. Suffice to I now use KDE4 exclusively on Suse. It is just a matter of time and space till I uninstall KDE3. Thanks KDE devs! /rant
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Re: KDE4
by Grósz Dániel on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @12:18
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Why should a beginner know what Okular or Gwenview is if there is no description in the menu?
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Re: KDE4
by Ben Morris on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @16:36
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Why would a beginner open those apps?
Surely it would just, for example, click on a PDF file in their file manager and, thanks to sensible default actions, Okular would magically appear?
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Re: KDE4
by Richard on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @19:32
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beginners always open apps to see what they are and learn. Seems to me the new approach is to dumb the system down.
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Re: KDE4
by emu on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @01:41
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Just imagine a beginner looking for Firefox. Why would anyone click on something like "Webbrowser" when they're looking for Firefox? ;) After all, who would expect just generic names? Nobody who has not used KDE before.
Even beginners expect to find certain programs and look for them by name.
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Re: KDE4
by Syzar on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @03:24
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IMO default should be description and app name. For example: Firefox (Webbrowser) or Amarok (Music Player). Of course option should exist to change it to show only app name.
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Re: KDE4
by Glen Anthony Kirkup on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @07:01
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I can't think of a better way to introduce new users, which is one of the most important things KDE has to do to grow further.
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Re: KDE4
by Sebastian Sauer on Wednesday 09/Jan/2008, @14:24
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http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=155362
Even more feedback is welcome :)
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Re: KDE4
by reihal on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @10:43
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"description and app name"
Goes without saying, why should they do it any other way?
Usability? I spit on "usability"!
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Re: KDE4
by Sebastian Sauer on Tuesday 08/Jan/2008, @07:55
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"usability" or "decide how others should work" was clearly not the reason for the decision to go with the generic aka describing name. It was more the question what may work well and if users will accept it. There where multiple points I/we did look at;
1) What needs to be really configurable and what doesn't. Goal here is/was to don't provide a checkbox for every single combination of solutions by picking a default and look if that's enough. Related to the name vs. description vs. description (name) vs. name (description) case; seems there is just no easy solution for this :-/
2) The traditional KDE3 style menu does even contain already a hack to e.g. display "OpenOffice.org Presentation" (the name) rather then "Presentation" (the description). One of the problems here was, that the generic name is used different between e.g. KDE and Gnome. While we define only the application name, so e.g. "kspread" as name and "Spreadsheet" as description, others prefer do use the generic name as appname+description field, e.g. "Gnumeric Spreadsheet" as generic name and "Spreadsheet" as description. That makes it rather difficult to just choose e.g. "description (name)" without looking somehow broken :-/
So, all in all: something that can be made better with an idea how to make it better :)
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Re: KDE4
by reihal on Wednesday 09/Jan/2008, @03:18
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Eh, please, this is KDE not gnome.
You are obviously entangled in some heated discussion behind the scenes
which I don't want to know about.
Description;name or name;description is the only variations that makes sense.
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Re: KDE4
by Sebastian Sauer on Wednesday 09/Jan/2008, @07:53
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> You are obviously entangled in some heated discussion behind the scenes which I don't want to know about.
Oh, you should know about them cause one of the goals of an open project is also to be transparent on such things what I tried to achieve by explaining the way that was leading to the result.
But beside transparency participation is another great thing an open project is able to provide. E.g. with your reply you already did participate since that's feedback and without such kind of feedback it would be rather difficult to know what ppl expect and how things should be solved.
> Description;name or name;description is the only variations that makes sense.
and that's now a decision you made behind the scenes cause there may ppl who may not agree there. Guess that's the "problem" about beeing human with an own idea how things should be. What helps most here is btw earlier participation and talks.
In the menu-case such kind of feedback was just missing and that's why it is how it is now. But since we saw within that thread already very good feedback, it's now easier to take them into account.
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Re: KDE4
by randomguy3 on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @12:49
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There is, in fact, a weather plasmoid. The data engine is installed by default, and the widget part is at http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/base/plasma/applets/weather/ (you may need to run cmake in the playground/base/plasma directory for the build to work).
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Re: KDE4
by ne... on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @13:32
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Thanks, I was hoping Suse would spoil me rotten and have a rpm for me. I might head back to compiling soon tho.
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Re: KDE4
by Sutoka on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @14:53
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There is a playground package and it includes the weather applet.
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Re: KDE4
by Shawn Starr on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @21:06
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Yeah, I couldn't get the weather plasmoid in time for extragear. It's in the playground for the time being.
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Re: KDE4
by eMPee584 on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @15:23
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> I love all that black. I wish I could have more.
hint: POWER button. Hit it.
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Re: KDE4
by Aaron J. Seigo on Sunday 06/Jan/2008, @16:58
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the jumps are due to the compositing. this happens with compiz, too. it bugs the HECK out of me as well. i'm not sure what the solution will end up being, but apparently composition managers do not deal well with canvasy apps like plasma.
when i run a non-compositing window manager things are silky smooth.
blarg.
you have no idea (or.. maybe you do =) how frustrating it is after compiz and what not having been out there for the last few years how much composite, argb, etc support in x.org and its drivers just flat out *sucks*.
it's The Way for the future (non-composited displays just won't be around in years to come, i'm sure of it; there are too many advantages) so we shouldn't deviate .... but i wish x.org was a bit more ... robust in the area.
nvidia's new driver they released at the end of december works properly with argb, though! hooray for the small wins =) and that's exactly how it's like to go; a lot of my near future will consist of trying to find ways to stack up more and more of these little wins by exposing the weaknesses and working with those responsible for those pieces of software to address the issues. not exactly my idea of "fun", but .. yeah. needs to get done.
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Re: KDE4
by T on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @01:05
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Just as KDE apps were needed to help insure that the KDElibs are really "ready," so too I guess KDE is going to help make x.org "ready." While it surely will be a challenging/annoying road, we'll be grateful in the end!
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Re: KDE4
by Jeff Strehlow on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @21:04
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"it's The Way for the future (non-composited displays just won't be around in years to come, i'm sure of it; there are too many advantages) so we shouldn't deviate"
But doesn't composting slow things down and take up a lot of memory? To me those are huge disadvantages. I sure hope it will be possible to turn it off or better yet put it in a separate package that can be uninstalled if we don't want it; that way there wont be code sitting in memory that isn't used for anything. I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that don't have the latest computers (like my wife) and won't use KDE4 if it makes their computer run much slower.
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Re: KDE4
by jos poortvliet on Tuesday 08/Jan/2008, @02:37
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well, compositing does those things now, but theoretically, it should actually speed up things. "Just" needs a proper X.org and driver architecture, which we simply don't have right now...
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Re: KDE4
by reihal on Wednesday 09/Jan/2008, @03:30
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And we never will, unless KDE and/or Trolltech takes over it.
The division of Linux, X and KDE is the way that MS can "conquer by division".
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