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Re: Where is Plasma headed?
by Parminder Ramesh on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @00:39
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Thanks for the reply Aaron. I'm happy to wait patiently, because I know that you and the KDE developers can be relied on to deliver. Even if you're only human, the results so far look pretty promising, so good job!
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Re: Where is Plasma headed?
by Fred on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @01:01
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Human? Aaron? no shit!
:-)
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Re: Where is Plasma headed?
by Phd Student on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @01:40
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Wow, Aaron, you did a great job! I really hated the Plasma before, but I just checked out the kde4live, and it rocks hard! Very stable, does exactly what I thought it would (i.e. user-friendly), and, as I heard, it is (along with the rest of the KDE4 technologies) a great foundation. So, you took a lot of heat (even from me...) and you still did a great job. Well done, to you and to everyone else in the KDE team!
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Re: Where is Plasma headed?
by Julian on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @02:37
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I'm quite impressed about how you've been able to take a mix of different posts, discard the trolling ones, take the constructive critics and comments, and for the nice work. The newest live release was clearly better and I'm sure it'll improve further. It takes guts to withstand so much cr@p from people. Other developers have quit different project because of that. Thanks for holding on, and for the good work.
Julian
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Re: Where is Plasma headed?
by Martin Fitzpatrick on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @08:34
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Thanks for all the hard work, and for taking the time to answer questions & take feedback. I know it might not seem it sometimes, but you've got a very appreciative community out here who seriously impressed with what you've managed to turn around in such a short timeframe. We're also looking forward to seeing what you can pull together for 4.1! Well done, seriously.
(P.S. Remember to get some rest after it's out the door, you've earnt it.)
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Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by T. J. Brumfield on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @09:47
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The plasma website makes all these bold claims about a vision, and this is what gets me.
I love KDE, and I mean I really love it. I'm excited to see it continue to grow. However, the Plasma website promises a lot, where is it seems like so little is delivered at the moment.
I'm a patient chap, and if you tell me, we have this vision, and this is what it is going to be, but it will take 18 months, then so be it.
I'm just curious to see what exactly the vision is to reinvent the desktop. How can we rethink the space, make it work better, etc?
For starters, I'd wouldn't mind hearing you fully explain the rationale behind your opinion on the Desktop folder. You say the concept is broken, and I'm curious why you think that, and how we can do it better.
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by Joe Kowalski on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @10:09
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I would like to see a little containment applet to hold and sort all the icons for the files in ~/Desktop/. As is, the icons get spread out all over the place. A containment applet could provide quick access to files and apps, keep them sorted, and keep them from sprawling all over the desktop.
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by Anon on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @10:26
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Yep - I've been wanting this for years, and I especially would like to be able to reserve a separate area for removable devices. Thankfully, this should all be relatively easy within the Plasma framework!
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by ptr on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @12:05
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thing is you wont be able to place new items on desktop so easy....
you need to go to your home folder... click Desktop... and then make a new file or folder.
dont like this 'feature' personally.
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by Stefan on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @12:25
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I'm happy icons are in Plasma at all. From what I can consider, Plasma is the first desktop to allow one to rotate the icons. If only my KWin would work (bug 154637)...
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by Joe Kowalski on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @18:48
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The Answer for this is actually simple. When QT 4.4 is out, load the dolphin file view kpart (the same that is now being used in konquerors file view) into the containment as a widget on canvas. Now the file icons with this won't be plasma icons, but they will be fully manageable as files.
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by hias on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @14:52
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It would be nice if the folders on the desktops are these containments. Imagine, you drag&drop a folder to your desktop and what you see is the folder icon. So far nothing new, but when you resize the icon it turns into the containment and shows all the items inside the folder.
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by jos poortvliet on Tuesday 08/Jan/2008, @08:32
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Would be easily possible with plasma ;-)
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by Aaron J. Seigo on Tuesday 08/Jan/2008, @15:03
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> I would like to see a little containment applet to hold and sort all the
> icons for the files in ~/Desktop/
that's already on my list for 4.1 =)
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by Phd student on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @12:27
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Read Aaron Siego's blog at http://aseigo.blogspot.com/ It will explain you everything. Aaron is very talkative :)
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by T. J. Brumfield on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @16:41
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I do, and I've seen him say several times that icons in a Desktop folder is a broken concept, though I'm not sure why. He writes about hating the old Kicker and desktop, and how Plasma is meant to allow great flexibility, but I haven't read how we're going to reinvent the desktop.
"This, then, is the goal and mandate of Plasma: to take the desktop as we know it and make it relevant again. Breathtaking beauty, workflow driven design and fresh ideas are key ingredients and this web site is your portal onto its birth."
Where is the workflow driven design and fresh ideas?
At the moment, we just have an easier means to write widgets. If widgets are the end-all-be-all of Plasma, I'll count myself extremely disappointed. We've had widgets since Windows 95, and they've never revolutionized anything.
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by jos poortvliet on Tuesday 08/Jan/2008, @08:38
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Well, the point is that these widgets can do pretty much anything. Very unlike traditional widgets for the desktop. Now we just need to figure out what out of 'everything' it is we need ;-)
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Re: Dramatic vision of reinventing the desktop
by Aaron J. Seigo on Tuesday 08/Jan/2008, @15:13
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before i could write the new workflow components, i needed a framework capable of supporting what i needed.
since i planned on replacing the desktop/panels, i needed a rewritten desktop/panels app on top of that framework.
when we replaced the desktop/panels, people wanted every feature they are used to from traditional desktops.
meanwhile we ran in bugs in x, bugs in drivers in x, bugs in Qt, missing or (for plasma) unformed features in Qt and kwin .. hell, even issues in gtk+.
all this took time to cook. not to mention everything else i end up doing during the day/night. so 4.0 arrived.
in the meantime, many of the the ideas that i talked about publicly a lot have appeared in other environments since. a little depressing ;) i don't think that people listen to me and then run off to implement features in macos, windows, etc.. or anything (i'm not quite that megalomaniacal ;). but i do think that when one person in an industry starts thinking openly about things, then other people near them do as well, and then the next person and the next person and ... ideas ripple and pop up here and there like particles tunnelling about via quantum mechanics. =)
the ideas i haven't really discussed much haven't appeared anywhere mainstream that i've noticed (yet). so just to avoid jinxing myself even more, i'm keeping a bit more quiet about things until the code is there.
i've also spent more time trying to get deserved attention for the fine work of others in kde4. it's not just all about plasma, you know ;)
and i will admit, another motivation for being quiet is that many times when i i would talk about some sort of feature people would shout "vapour! vapour! you and your vapour suck!" which is a bit annoying to deal with while your writing the code to implement those features. even i have limits to how much negative feedback i can receive in one time span. so .. i grow quiet.
anyways.. i'm feeling good and energetic, 4.0 is out, we can barrel forward with 4.1 ... fun times.
as for why ~/Desktop is a bad, stupid and limiting idea ... i'll blog about that.
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BumpTop..?!
by eMPee584 on Monday 07/Jan/2008, @15:59
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I'm sure some of you have seen Anand Agarawala/Ravin Balakrishnan's prototype of a new Desktop (if not, be sure to check it out at http://bumptop.com/, it's really great work).. I think the usefulness of this does not scale to any kind of computing one would like to do, but it is to be noted as a very refreshing and exciting INNOVATION in the field of graphical user interfaces. I don't know if plasmoids scale to 3D yet, but it would sure be kool to have that possibility, also in the next few years we will see the arrival of 'real' 3D screens as consumer products, so if we talk about 'visions' and computing NG(tm) then certainly we at some point need to give some thoughts about the third dimension ... ;)
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Re: BumpTop..?!
by SVG Crazy on Tuesday 08/Jan/2008, @05:23
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Anand Agarawala/Ravin Balakrishnan's prototype of a new Desktop is kinda messy, but since it's just a prototype I think it is very important to share these ideas to make things better. I don't really know if plasma is going to be in a few years (since it will be able to be pretty much everything ;)) but I think these kind of ideas of making the desktop and apps windows real 3D will pretty much be possible with the addiction of widgets-on-canvas on qt 4.4.
The preview of this technology can be seen here:
http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2007/11/22/widgets-on-the-canvas-integrated/
Aaron already mentioned about moving plasma to widgets-on-canvas and webkit for applet rendering:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/01/pencils-down.html
What will happen then? Only the future will say... And I'd say it's a near and very exciting future...
Sorry for my English, still learning...
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