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Re: We need more women!!!
by Kefah Issa on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @13:55
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No doubt. But I don't think any one is pushing the females away. its the difficulty and complexity of such a system that makes it naturally an ol'boys thingy.
But still, as you said, there are things that we men admit we would never be as good as female in.
So, in addition to development, females can contribute tremendously to UI (and usability/user experience in general), Quality, and Documentation.
Maybe they are not approached properly? maybe tasks are not clearly classified and then advertised properly?
I leave this to the core kde team to tell about...
at last, all kudos to the great 4-oh-oh !
- Kefah. |
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Re: We need more women!!!
by random kde user. on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @14:12
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<i>its the difficulty and complexity of such a system that makes it naturally an ol'boys thingy</i>
If I were a woman, that comment would have pushed me away.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by Kefah Issa on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @14:40
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Yes, its a known fact that boys like to tinker with more complex things, including when that thing is simply pointless.
For example, its a known fact that violant games are designed for boys... this why girls (in general) don't like playing them.
Its does not have any thing to do with who is better than the other.
Its important that we understand, that our actions as a community, and our expectations could be the real reason why feminine contribution is minimal.
Please take what I say in a good well.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by Aaron J. Seigo on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @22:10
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puh-lease. in the mainstream industry the numbers are something like 30% women in software. in some countries like malaysia the number of women getting management and technical degrees is greater than the number of men.
yes, there are gender biases (which don't always line up with your gonads, btw) but we are far away from the much smaller differentials those biases may create.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by Joe on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @16:26
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Then you just proved his point.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by Anon on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @14:22
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"its the difficulty and complexity of such a system that makes it naturally an ol'boys thingy."
"So, in addition to development, females can contribute tremendously to UI (and usability/user experience in general), Quality, and Documentation."
Did I just timewarp back to the 1950's, or something? These are awfully ignorant comments.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by Kefah Issa on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @14:29
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mmm. What I mean here is we are different! I do fully acknowledge the equality concept. I am not saying one is superior over the other. I am just saying that by nature we are different!
for example i would say a similar thing if it was brought up : why arabs or africans are not contributing as much. I would say that maybe the system complexity for them presents an obstacle, and maybe they can still help in many other things, (while keeping the door for helping in development open).
Please don't be hard on me.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by attendant on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @14:58
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perhaps it would be best if you just STFU.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by Joe on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @16:27
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Yes, you should.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by Martin Fitzpatrick on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @16:56
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I get the impression that English is not your first language? Discussing these things is potentially explosive at the best of times, so I've given you the benefit of the doubt on some of the clumsy phrasing.
In an attempt to dig you out of your hole, would I be right to assume by "complexity" you mean in the "learning curve" sense. That is, because those groups you identify as being under-represented have - to date - less experience/track record of working on open software projects, there is a barrier to entry for them to take part? Even if only in terms of exposure, peer contact or community.
The comments on the UI stuff does smack a little of "girls play with the pretty things". That said, they are good areas to contribute for people from non-programming backgrounds, a description that fits more women than men. For now.
Hopefully that's you rescued... ...now, go get back to less complex things ;)
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Re: We need more women!!!
by jospoortvliet on Friday 11/Jan/2008, @12:00
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I think he has a point, even though he put it rather crudely. Boys generally enjoy technical and philosophical talk more than girls. There are many exceptions to that rule, of course - and it might very well be a cultural thing. In the Netherlands, more woman study and graduate from medicine schools - the average young surgeon here is woman, and she does a better job than males do... As that used to be a very male profession, I suppose it's kind-of a hint at the cultural basis of such biases.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by Thomas on Friday 11/Jan/2008, @14:26
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In my (computing graduate) school, the number of women has been on par with the number of men during many years (70s and 80s basically). They were even around 60% some years. But their number began to dwindle in the 90s, to become less than 10%. They are almost 25% now so it's better but it's still unbalanced. (But most of the teachers are still women.) According to some people they began to flee when the socially challenged geek cliché became widespread. But still, it means that the situation is far from being unrecoverable.
But when talking about men/women differences, bear in mind that more often that not, personal differences are greater than gender _average_ difference.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by blacky on Saturday 12/Jan/2008, @13:46
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Women are no more sensitive to public opinion than men are. Jeez, what a bunch of patriarchs in this thread.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by anon on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @14:37
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see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_computing for some of the more famous women who have contributed over the years, also highlights that there are ~2.5 times more men educated in CS at the moment - this may be due to comments like Mr Issa's?
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Re: We need more women!!!
by anon2 on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @19:16
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No... it's because people are different.
The stats speak for themselves. Women aren't interested in developing for KDE. Just because 3 are, doesn't mean anyone is "better" than anyone.
To each his (or, to put it in KDE's obsessive political correctness, "his/her" or "her") own task. I write a little bit of code, tear apart cars and work on computers. I'm not a businessman, day trader, gardener, house cleaner, welder, pilot, construction worker, stay at home person, ...
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Re: We need more women!!!
by anon on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @19:45
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I do take your point, just seems such a waste of available talent. Anyway, I get the feeling these posts are like trying to have an argument with oneself - in lieu of any actual women posters hereabouts I mean :)
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Re: We need more women!!!
by Chani on Thursday 10/Jan/2008, @21:43
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um, that's kinda like saying that women just weren't interested in having jobs or voting before the 19th century.
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Re: We need more women!!!
by MamiyaOtaru on Friday 11/Jan/2008, @03:35
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Going slightly off topic here, but Wyoming (while still a territory) gave women the right to vote (and hold office!) in 1869, before any other US State or Territory, and before New Zealand, which was the first nation as a whole to do so.
http://tinyurl.com/2oj2g4
It's one of those things that makes me wonder why we get painted as backwards rednecks so often :-/
Back to your regularly scheduled thread!
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