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Re: Cool
by kwilliam on Friday 18/Jan/2008, @20:42
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I have the opposite experience (Compiz was quite smooth, KWin incredibly jerky) but I have faith in the KWin developers that it will improve quickly. They also seem to have a better sense of what "effects" are useful (e.g. the keyboard filtering in Present Windows).
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Re: Cool
by Bobby on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @02:53
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Could it be that you have a nVidia card and are having driver issues? I had the same problem with my nVidia care but after applying a so-called Hack (that was mentioned here) and doing a few adjustments in the xorg.conf file the effects are now very smooth.
On the other hand I can't get Compiz-Fusion to run with Xorg on KDE 4.0. It seems to need XGL, which KDE 4.0 seems to be allergic to. I also have problems with Kaffeine when using Compiz-Fusion.
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Re: Cool
by Lubos Lunak on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @03:23
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KWin release notes for KDE4.0, see the right section : http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KWin/4.0-release-notes . I don't know if there are any other possible improvements, so I don't know what those few adjustements could be, but I can add more if people tell me them.
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Re: Cool
by Bobby on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @04:02
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Written by Marcel Partap in thread The Start of Something Amazing:
(attention: put 'export KWIN_NVIDIA_HACK=1' in your /etc/profile or so if you have an nvidia card, it does make a huge difference!)
Also add this to your xorg.conf file:
Section "Extensions"
Option "Composite" "Enable"
EndSection
And make sure that you are using the latest nvidia driver.
You should tell us if it worked for you.
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Re: Cool
by pantsgolem on Friday 18/Jan/2008, @21:29
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I agree. I'm not ready to fully migrate to KDE4 yet, but I've switched to the KDE4 versions of several apps, including kwin. Other than some weirdness with the password dialog in kscreensaver, and the fact that setting KDEWM doesn't seem to work right, so I have to launch it manually, it's great.
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Re: Cool
by Fred on Friday 18/Jan/2008, @23:41
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If the rotating transparent cube and the wobbly windows get implemented in kwin, i'm sure 90% of compiz users would switch.
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Re: Cool
by Esben Mose Hansen on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @00:11
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Everyone wants wobbly windows! It isn't rational, it is a simply human ;) But keep the wobbling very stiff by default, so as to be noticeably, but no more than that.
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Re: Cool
by Lubos Lunak on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @00:59
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Somebody needs to do those :). We decided not to do those for 4.0 because of expected bad gain/effort ratio. They will be probably technically a bit harder to implement than others, and I'm not personally very convinced of their usefulness - e.g. the cube is good for giving non-advanced users a way to grasp the concept of virtual desktops, and for the hype of course (since compositing _is_ the cube, right?), but I was getting motion sickness rather quickly every time I tried to use it, and I had problems to actually find what I was looking for (especially with a higher number of desktops or the additional stuff enabled like cube-from-inside or transparent-cube). So they will be done when somebody finds time to do that, and that can be also you.
PS: The parts about KWin in this commit digest are from KWin's release notes for KDE4.0 : http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/KWin/4.0-release-notes .
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Re: Cool
by Thomas on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @03:19
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Well, it was definitely the right decision to postpone those features, as they're really just eyecandy, nothing more. I love the composite features that are in KDE4.0, but apart from maybe a Vista window switcher (I love that one!), I don't think I need anything else. Please concentrate more on speed, it's way more important IMO!
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Re: Cool
by yman on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @22:11
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didn't the Compiz Application Switcher come before the Vista one?
anyway, Wobbly Windows make moving windows around feel much better. it's like the movement is much more... natural.
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Re: Cool
by Bobby on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @02:57
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Those were my favourites too + the shiver effect of drop-down menus etc..
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Re: Cool
by Soap on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @08:49
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When I set up comiz (or beryl or whatever it was then), I had to use wobbly windows, because it was the only way to get windows to snap to edges. Also, the stiffer the windows, the less they would snap.
That's when I decided KWin was more practical. That wasn't the only reason though, there were also desktop issues, and pager issues, and hotkey issues, etc.
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Re: Cool
by Max on Monday 21/Jan/2008, @12:13
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I would!!!
Well I'm using KDE 4.0 already, but I really am missing the: CUBE, EXPOSE, COVERFLOW, MAGIC LAMP
And yes.. Compiz ran smoother on this machine than Kwin does.. I'm patient though.. I know you guys will come around and fix this..
All in due time.. (I hope... :-/ )
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Re: Cool
by abc on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @00:42
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Stay serious, Compiz is 20 times more performant than this KDE 4 thing and has 10 times better effects.
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Re: Cool
by Lubos Lunak on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @01:02
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20 times, 10 times ... speaking of staying serious, how about you tried to lead the way?
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Re: Cool
by abc on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @01:08
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20 times is the sad reality.
I don't know why.
10 times is subjective impression.
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Re: Cool
by Bobby on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @03:01
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And KDE 4 is 30 times better integrated in KDE :) Some of Compiz's effects are also over-kill.
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Re: Cool
by Bobby on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @03:15
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I mean Kwin4 is better integrated in KDE4.
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Re: Cool
by Anon on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @07:10
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Not any more - KWin4 the game was renamed to KFourInLine in order to prevent this clash :)
http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=748209
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Re: Cool
by Bobby on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @16:45
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It's not a game anymore, it's now called KFourInLine ;)
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Re: Cool
by Segedunum on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @07:16
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"Stay serious, Compiz is 20 times more performant than this KDE 4 thing and has 10 times better effects."
What on Earth do you think Compiz [Fusion] or Beryl were like when they first started? It's also not being developed as part of a desktop project though, but rather as a separate window manager. Additionally, there are also a lot of corner cases and situations where Compiz doesn't work well, which negates its usage as a day-to-day window manager - no matter how it performs or how many effects it has.
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Re: Cool
by Odysseus on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @08:54
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And KWin is a 50x better Window Manager than Compiz, which really is its primary function right???
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Re: Cool
by Leo S on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @10:08
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I am serious. Kwin performs fine for me (Geforce 7900 something) and the effects are nicer (present windows+filter, switching desktops, show desktops, etc). Compiz (0.6.2) had lots of issues with window placement, and weird bugs like wobbly windows never stopping to wobble. The only thing that I miss from Compiz is a zoom function that can be controlled with the mousewheel (the zoom in Kwin doesn't work for me).
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Re: Cool
by Bobby on Saturday 19/Jan/2008, @02:23
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Thanks from me too Danny. Well done. I just hope that the whole thing about Compiz and Kwin4 is now clarified.
@ leo S: I am a big fan of Compiz-Fusion but I have to confirm what you said. Compiz-fusion is amazing but it doesn't integrate in KDE very well. Kwin4 at this point doesn't have the glitz, glamour and flair of the ingenious Compiz-Fusion (although I am convinced that it will come in due time) but what it does it does it very well and it's perfectly integrated in KDE :)
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