The Fine Print: The following comments
are owned by whomever posted them.
( Reply )
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by Matt on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @02:05
|
Eye-candy? No you can't eat software let alone it tasting sweet. It is just a metaphor for visually looking good though, ooh and it doesn't mention sex! Is that just as annoying?
The writer could have said novel, distinctive and powerful features or something but cool and sexy are an alternative for "great" in this case I think. Sexy is universal across gender so you are right, not everyone has testicles in their head!
Try not to be so annoyed by a metaphor, some of us find your complaint a big turn-off ;)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by yman on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @03:57
|
where I come from sex is one of the holiest things, which is why it's private rather than public.
making sex something casual and meaningless is a big part of what I object to, as well as encouraging the misuse of sex. all I'm asking is that you should please not offend me and turn me off. I think you'd also sound smarter if you did that.
if that is too much to ask, maybe I'll take my eyes and brain elsewhere. you'd lose a potential developer, seeing as I'm about to start learning programing in college.
it's your choice whether to appeal to a wider audience by not using phrases that can be offensive, or only appealing to a certain kind of person. one lone incident isn't going to turn me away from KDE, and I knew what kind of people I'm dealing with (take it literally), but if this persists I might feel like there really isn't room for me in this community. Just recently there was this whole thing about women in KDE, and when I said "maybe there aren't woman in KDE cause they just don't want to code" (quote from memory), I was told that it's the environment which discouraged women's participation even when they want to get involved. well, the same applies to me and moral values. I can tolerate some things, but other things turn me away. this kind of thing is the reason I don't do translations for Songbird anymore. I just couldn't tolerate the drawing of that bird having sex with Tux on the front page.
BTW, expressions like "Konqueror needs some love before it's ready" don't bother me too much, because the meaning of love is giving and helping and doing stuff for the sake of others. it only irritates me because a lot of people use the word love to mean sex, but when people say stuff like the above they are using the word the correct way.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by Matt on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @04:32
|
I think the problem here is that you think sexy means only about sex and it doesn't. Example:
In the UK they talk about sexy football. They mean stylish and interesting football that is exciting to watch. Nothing to do with sex.
Take a look at sexy from a dictionary. Here is the third meaning from dictionary dot com:
3. excitingly appealing; glamorous: a sexy new car.
I hope that with this information you might be less offended by the use of the word sexy. The usage of the word in the article is completely appropriate, perhaps you disagree that the word should mean this but it is hardly the fault of the writer that you are offended.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by yman on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @04:49
|
I'll think about it.
on the other hand why is it that some words are impolite, while others aren't?
saying "nonsense" is OK, but "crap" isn't, even when they are used for the same thing. (like "that's nonsense" and "that's crap")
can't there be some standard of discretion? or maybe there is and it doesn't cover what bothers me?
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by Matt on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @05:00
|
I would accept that sexy is more informal (informal is not necessarily impolite) than "great" or "exciting" or "interesting" but this was a report from a day at the release event and it seems OK to me, its hardy an academic paper or something like that.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by yman on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @05:15
|
I could accept that, if this weren't an official KDE website.
and why should manners be something that is outside the realm of real, living people?* does this mean humanity has lost it's dignity?
*academia doesn't count with me, because they live in theory rather than reality. can't tell you how many times I've been annoyed by theoretical discussions that ignored the fact that they are dealing with real issues. I'd rather not delve further into this subject
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by anon on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @05:36
|
I think that more important than the word is the intent with which it is used, obviously it is harder to judge in these days of text only communication. As an example, in the UK at least, there is far more swearing on television than ever before. People from 30 years ago would be shocked to see what is allowed these days, but nowadays the words have been desensitised. The emotion behind the words are the same but the words have changed. eg. in the 1950's if my train was cancelled I would say "bother!" or maybe even "bugger!" (which is another story) but these days they say "shit!" or "crap!". As the offence is taken in the tone of how it is phrased (from which you gauge the emotion) I think it is fine. In short I think it can be rude depending on how it is said - which causes confusion and unintended offence over the internet where it lacks context.
Anyway, KDE is a community not a corporate body, and it has members all over the globe so until the world homogenises these small problems are unavoidable I'm afraid.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by yman on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @05:52
|
well, just because something is common doesn't make it good. all the swearing and cursing doesn't bother me any less just because they do it twice a minute on most TV shows. (and no, thats not a real number. it's a figurative figure used for emphasis)*. same goes for the pretty much pornographic content you get on TV and in movies, or gore that has finally even reached the milder cop shows.
*I think I might be making fun of myself (and my sensitivities) here. or maybe all the apologies people make, like: "I love Ubuntu, but it *ahem* doesn't run well at all on my XYZ system" finally really got to me.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by terracotta on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @05:13
|
Using the word sexy for something new, exciting etc... isn't that uncommon, and splits the meaning of the word sexy from the meaning of the word sex, in certain cases, so it doesn't make sex casual and meaningless.
Second, using sexy, cool ... whatelse, is a way to attract more regular users to KDE, since using only political correct words/sentences would certainly give KDE a nerd-only feel, and that's not what they are aiming for.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by yman on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @05:19
|
cool, eye candy, etc: these words don't have any connection to objectionable subject matters.
I can understand the marketing (or whatever) reason, but I haven't met this expression until now in the realm of KDE, and somehow I didn't feel like anything was lacking.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by yman on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @05:28
|
oh, and I forgot to mention that on the whole, I do hate anything that has to do with being "politically correct".
anyhow, this isn't a threat of "do as I say or else". I'm just telling you how you can make yourselves more hospitable and welcoming towards me. I may stick with KDE in spite of the differences, or I may feel like I can't hang out with you folks any longer, and I wouldn't know how until I'm already out the door.
I do appreciate your attempts to explain things to me. maybe if I understand where you're coming from I'll be able to put up with how you express yourselves. I've already learned how to say "weekend", and be casual about other people consuming alcohol for fun. maybe I'll get used to this too, but then maybe not, who knows?
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by Ed on Wednesday 23/Jan/2008, @01:39
|
I suggest reading William Isaacs book "Dialogue and the art of thinking together" as it deals with the situation of conflict that occurs in dialogue and suggests ways to get beyond the conflict and towards reflection where you put aside your own opinions with the aim of trying to appreciate where the other party(ies) are 'coming from'.
Harmony is about tolerance and I'm sure we all appreciate being made aware of the challenges we face in communicating to a diverse community such as KDE and how to better address that.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by jospoortvliet on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @07:14
|
let me add to the commends already made: yes my vocabulary is limited, im not a native speaker. I copy what i see elsewhere... Sorry if that is offensive.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by Anon on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @07:28
|
"Sorry if that is offensive."
It's not - some highly-strung dude flew off the handle for the flimsiest of reasons. Keep on doing what you're doing :)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by yman on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @08:15
|
I think I'm all chilled by now. maybe listening to that keynote put stuff into proportion.
I didn't mean to be offensive [biting lip in order not to add some more stuff that's quite irrelevant], but comforting those I offended by offending me isn't exactly going to lower the flames. or at least, it wouldn't have if I were someone else. fortunately I'm me, and I've already decided to give the subject a rest.
now, about flying off the handle: just understand one little thing, please: not everyone is like you. like I said, where I come from, that is offensive. in your culture, it's no big deal. in mine it is. I can pretty much understand why it's not a biggie for you (at least I think I can, by going into emulation mode), but you don't seem to understand me. that might be because I've simply not told you the name of the culture I come from, and I also have no intention of doing so.
about that limited vocabulary comment: I took you to be a native English speaker. lots of those (I'm not saying most) know even less words than I do. this is quite surprising, because I didn't grow up in an English speaking environment. in truth, I don't know a good drop-in replacement for that word in that sentence either, so I would have probably wrote it completely differently.
there are plenty of intelligent people who can't express themselves in the clearest manner possible for various reasons. I, for instance, usually explain things in every technical way, trying to get every word to literally mean what I want to say, regardless of what it means to the person I'm speaking to. (guess I just called myself intelligent. heh). or for example someone managed to explain to me the definition of feeling hate in a very "fuzzy" way. just because you aren't (at the moment) a poet in the English language, doesn't mean anything. or maybe you are, but the kind of words you use don't speak to me?
I guess what I'm trying to do is apologize for offending you, without withdrawing what I said. this is indeed an odd affair for all parties involved.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by jospoortvliet on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @10:48
|
Well, I didn't (and don't) want to be involved in the discussion you had with the other guy - but I would like to say I understand what you said. You might have overreacted, but your point is valid, and I won't promise anything (I tend to forget) but I'll try to use other terms in the future.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by Paul on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @11:36
|
> I'll try to use other terms in the future.
Please don't, I love your articles. Let's not censure ourselves to make some people happy. If you have to obey to every single religious sensibility then you might as well stop talking about technologies and drop KDE to be sure not to upset the Amish reading this.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by mactalla on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @12:40
|
I just want to say that I think you're handling this situation better than most others I see in this thread. We can never know the effect that our words or actions will have on every single person in the world. As the project grows we will continue to have more and more people with different backgrounds. Without knowing someone's past or current situation, we can't anticipate how something we feel is innocent might negatively affect them. As a physical example, peanuts seem quite benign, even tasty. But to certain people they could spell death. Similarly, if someone had been attacked by a dog as a child, they would likely shy away from visiting anyone with a pet dog.
So, Jos, thanks for trying to understand yman and where he/she is coming from. And yman, thanks to you as well, I see you're also trying to understand others' culture and the definition of the word to realize it wasn't intended to be offensive. English is a very confusing language. One of the most common mistakes I hear from others is 'fun' vs. 'funny'. They both have the same root and similar positive connotation, however they are quite distinct in their meaning.
I don't want to prolong this off topic conversation, but wanted to encourage understanding of the different people and cultures within our community.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by Anon chick on Monday 21/Jan/2008, @15:40
|
As a native English speaker, I didn't even notice the original comment in the piece. Not using it ever would definitely seem to fall under the "political correctness (in a bad manner)" realm.
And I'm not one for casual profanity either. But this doesn't strike me as it. Nor as disrespectful.
This conversation does strike me as somewhat off-topic, though.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by David Johnson on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @10:20
|
"Hey! Is this guy boring you? Why don't you come talk to me instead? I run KStars. Seriously! You want to see my spaceship?"
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: nice review, with one exception
by David Johnson on Sunday 20/Jan/2008, @10:25
|
I'm sooooo glad Jos didn't talk about the funky cafe at Google. :-P
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
The Fine Print: The previous
comments are owned by whomever posted them.
( Reply )
|
|
![[KDE Dot News]](http://www.kde.org/dot/Images/kdedotnews.gif)
