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Will the FreeQt foundation actually work?
by Nach on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @03:12
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Some question if FreeQt can work depending on what Nokia does.
This guy suggests (http://insanecoding.blogspot.com/2008/01/say-goodbye-to-former-qt-and-hello-to.html) that FreeQt won't do anything if the open source version becomes Windows only.
Personally, I think Nokia bought Trolltech to prevent other companies from using QTopia on their phones, and really don't care about advancing Qt at all. They will probably also inevitably end up doing something to hurt us.
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so, the million dollar question..
by jmk on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @03:13
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If this was done to..
a) to get a better product than gtk+/maemo and to actively develop it, or
b) to wipe out competition?
Hmm, Nokia to unify Linux userspace?
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KDE and Nokia
by peter on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @03:13
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I hope it won't end like Novell and OpenExchange.
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April 1 is early this year
by Fred on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @03:59
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That was my first thought...
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WTF
by A KDE developer on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @04:10
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1) Nokia is pushing for software patentability.
2) Nokia opposed OGG as a web standard
3) Nokia shut down the Bochum factory because they don't like the idea of well-paid workers
4) Nokia is a GTK/GNOME house and dont be naive, this is not changing
5) Nokia is obviously doing this in order to harm its competitors (Motorola...) who use Qtopia. Hence, don't expect good news for Qtopia.
6) Again, what is Trolltech gaining from this? Even if an acquirer was needed, Nokia would not be a good candidate.
There are many companies out there who would be happy to buy Trolltech and could be good partners. Nokia just isn't one of them.
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a company is a company is a company
by Tagesthemengucker on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @04:15
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I think about Bochum.
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That was bound to happen, wasn't it?
by Debian User on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @04:20
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Hello,
really no surprise here, except for the buyer. I may say, I love that the Trolltech management prepared this buyout so well and everybody at Trolltech can be very proud about them. The GPLv3 release, the Webkit moves, etc. it all pays out.
I think it's very good for us that it's Nokia and not e.g. Novell. That's a company that will indeed care most for the embedded market and leave the desktop simply alone. And those who say that they may stop to develop X11, do not understand that Qt enormously benefits from the free testing and publicity they get through KDE.
Nokia will not hide Qt, it will continue share it with its concurrents. That's simply not a useful thing to do, as they would then miss out on the impact of community contributions, which save a lot. Mind you, that's a hardware company, who would simply like to have better software to sell its hardware and little more. They won't mind if I can run 3 office suites on the phone, if it makes me buy their phone.
Well, who knows, probably it means more free phones for developers. Like the one Aaron got, but for every KDE developer. :-)
Yours,
Kay
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FreeQT and new features
by Anonymous on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @04:42
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What is unclear for me is what "new features" means. What if Nokia will start to release a version per year with some totally unrelated and useless new features just to prohobit opening it under BSD ? So Qt will slowly get outdated and will die ? I hope I'm wrong !
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Congratulations
by A KDE advocate on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @05:08
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Congrats to Nokians and the trolls! I think time is the only answer to the plethora of questions springing into the Free Software community about the acquisition. I'm just concerned that it might create some hard feelings between the GTk+/GNOME people and us, the Qt/KDE community. I hope everybody will try to be open-minded rather than engaging in spiral toolkit flame wars.
Nokia: Now it's your turn to show a true commitment to Free Software and open standards or else you'll be risking a wave of Novell-like infamy.
Qt: But never turn a blind eye to what might your freedom just because it's being done by your parent company.
KDE: On to more ubiquity and achievements!
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what if !
by djouallah mimoune on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @05:09
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what if nokia decide that qt will be LGPL ( just to make it more attractive to developers, think android here :-)
i hope they are smart enough to do it !
ps: please don't flame me here, just a user wondering to be happy by the move or not
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I'll Switch to GNOME if this is really true
by blueget on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @05:31
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When Nokia really buys Trolltech, I will Switch to GNOME. KDE may be better, but having to do anything with Nokia is simply not acceptable for me.
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Just curious
by Leaves on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @05:38
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Hey,
I was wondering, does anyone know how much does this cost Nokia? I don't know much about big money, but is this just a small investment for Nokia or is this something really big for Nokia. Ie. how much bigger is Nokia then Trolltech?
Thx,
Leaves
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Striking back at Google
by planner on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @05:57
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This guy has another theory on why Nokia went for Trolltech, and I think if you understand what Nokia feels about Google's Android platform, you'll likely agree with him. Read his opinion at http://openandroids.com/2008/01/28/nokia-to-acquire-trolltech/
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My reaction
by Iuri Fiedoruk on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @06:29
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I've read all messages here so far, I've stoped to think... and by all means my initial perspective was not changed. Simply put: "Oh crap, this is bad!"
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Motivation
by Martin on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @06:34
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Why should Nokia actually buy Trolltech?
Why not fund a project or cooperate?
What is the actual motivation here for Nokia, what do they actually get out of owning Trolltech?
Companies the size of Nokia get run by accountants and lawyers.
I hope it all works to the good.
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Answer: FORK!
by karl on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @06:35
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At the slightest sign of QT becoming a piece of shit like Symbian, we should fork QT and the hell with Nokia et all.
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Your average user won't care
by Antonie Fourie on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @06:52
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I personally believe the tidings of woe are overblown. You're average desktop user does not particularly care about underlying technologies and who owns what - just ask the millions of Windows users out there. People just don't care, and why should they. The vast majority of the target market out there looks for useful solutions to day-to-day productivity needs - issues of ownership and licensing isn't really part of the equation.
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No surprise here
by taj on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @06:55
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The first thought that came to mind was - about time too. Let's see what Nokia gets here - a common SDK for their desktop and mobile/PDA software, a mature and proven app/telephony platform to replace the badly outmoded Symbian OS, control over the feature and portability roadmap of this platform (which they don't have with GTK+), and instant access to a third-party developer base (Qt, KDE and Qtopia developers). The price they are paying for all this is basically lunch money for a company like Nokia.
I don't see why they would mess with Trolltech's relationship with KDE, since KDE put Qt and Trolltech on the map in the first place and nobody at TT is going to forget that. It's the best advertising for their platform possible. In the worst case, there is the FreeQt agreement, and KDE devs can fork the GPL version of Qt anytime.
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Wow... People need to relax a bit and think
by Luke Chatburn on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @07:51
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Everyone here needs to take a breath.
Nokia has good reasons for wanting Qt and good business motivation to use it and develop it.
Nokia develops: Phones, Smartphones, PDAs, UMPCs, Embedded devices, Set-Top Boxes and a raft of other devices of various sizes and configurations. This will get worse with WiMAX devices no longer even being recognisable phones at times.
Phone makers used to managed their own single OS stack across their entire range, and they had some control. Now they are facing disperate platforms, with differing OSs, because the form factors of their products vary so much. That's a killer for:
-Tech Support
-Programmer team requirements for each platform
-Cross-platform services and apps
The current situation is costing them way too much, they can't support it all, they can't provide a distinctive 'Nokia look and feel' anymore, and they can't add their own services and apps that are unique to their phones and allow them to distinguish themselves from the competition and add value to their devices.
If you sell someone a phone with a special web search application that is form-factor suitable and charge 1p a search, you get their initial money and an ongoing fee, essentially. Nokia would like that, but it needs a client application to make it work on all their platforms.
Qt makes that happen.
Nokia wants desktop Qt to continue as it is, because sooner or later, UMPCs and all the rest make phones look like desktop machines with different form factors... Code will just work across all scales of devices. This is the ongoing power of Linux and Qt, taking the same apps from phone to PDA to Laptop to Desktop to Server to Mainframe.
This is the future, and Nokia just ensured that they are part of that future.
But you should definitely expect some more Qt/Embedded development in the near future :)
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The End
by Jim on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @08:10
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This is the end
Beautiful friend
This is the end
My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again
Can you picture what will be
So limitless and free
Desperately in need...of some...stranger's hand
In a...desperate land
...
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Congrats to the closed source world!
by Anon on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @08:14
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Now, a bad case in open source community. Congratulations!
Actually, I think KDE are the better desktop solution on open source world. I use KDE the last 6 years, and not only on Linux.
KDE can compete with Windows XP/Vista and MacOSX. That's really good!
This comment aren't just about "open source defense". Are about serious open source applications against closed source applications.
With this move, let's me say, IMHO, that's will be:
1) Some developers will move away from Qt based applications if Nokia don't do a good job with Qt (like TT was done).
2) Users go away because, with less developers, applications will be obsolete (bugs, lack of features, etc).
3) More developers go away because don't have users interested and so on....
Silently, with the time, this applications can be die.
Who will concerns about a Qt BSD Licensed without a lot of applications using them? I think no ones.
Of course, I really think that's Qt will continue to be distributed under GPL. And with some improvements, but oriented to Nokia business.
To me are simple: Qt and software development are the core-business of Trolltech. Mobile are the core business of Nokia. Improvements are made oriented by the core business.
I can't think in a worst company to acquire TT... Oh, yes, may be M$?
With this, my previous congratulations to the closed source world: will be free of more good competitors!
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be optimistic!!
by Jesus R. Acosta on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @08:29
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Well, Let us an opportunity to Nokia. Let's see what happens, but do not worry, KDE is open source and there are ways to continue its development independently.
Pessimism does not lead us to anything.
Let us be optimistic!!!
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Proposal
by Andre on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @08:37
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Nokia is a great concern because of their agressive software patent promotion and lobbying in Europe through inhouse patent professionals as Tim Frain. I would prefer a patent pledge from Nokia which clearly indemnifies open source development from patent threats and an open patent reform platform, and a more sane corporate policy towards patent policy in Europe that endorses both a harmonization of substantive patent law in the EU through legislative means, full support of the community patent and a rejection of the costly EU-EPLA proposal from the Commission and the the EPLA proposal from the EPO.
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...
by Datschge on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @08:42
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That was a major WTF news to me. Ages ago I read the majority of Trolltech shares were owned by current and former employees, so I'm surprised at the reported easiness Nokia was able to get the majority of Trolltech's shares. Nokia has a long history of heavy pro software patent lobbying. The Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure (FFII) lists several worrying points related to Nokia at http://www.swpat.ffii.org/gasnu/kamni/index.en.html
-Software Patents in Finnland: Between 1998 and 2003 the Finnish Patent Office (FiPO/FiPRH) did not follow the European Patent Office's (EPO) decisions to grant literal claims to information objects such as "computer program product, characterised by ...". In 2003 the FiPO suddenly rushed to grant such claims, although both the European Commission and the European Parliament had proposed not to allow them and the existing laws clearly forbid them. (...) Nokia owns about 70-80% of the finnish software patents at the EPO and is said to wield overwhelming influence on Finnland's politics. Nokia's patent department has been intensively lobbying for software patentability in Helsinki, Brussels and Strasburg.
-Nokia und Software-Patente: Tim Frain, head of Nokia's patent department, is a "permanent resident" of the European parliament and has used every opportunity to ask politicians in Brussels and in Finland to support the European Commission's software patentability directive. He is present at conferences everywhere. He argues that small companies badly need software patents because otherwise their ideas might be stolen by large companies.
-International Chamber of Commerce (ICC) and Software Patents: ICC's "Intellectual Property Committee", consisting of 240 corporate "IP professionals" from around the world, headed by Urho Ilmonen, Vice-President Legal of Nokia Mobile Phones Ltd, has vigorously defended the interests of the patent community in Europe. Their letters and statements are characterised by "strong belief" in the beneficiality of patents and disregard for the opinions not only of most ICC member companies but also of national member organisations such as the German Chamber of Commerce, which has pronounced itself against software patents and against the directive proposal.
Trolltech putting all version of Qt under GPL v3 is a good sign, but I sure hope they are aware of Nokia's activity in the patent area and put in their merger contract that such activity no longer happens at Nokia (likely wishful thinking, especially considering Trolltech doesn't bother to mention the issue of software patent once in their numerous merger related articles/letters/FAQs linked).
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It's over
by Me on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @08:43
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KDE already in the shit and now QT going there. It was nice while it lasted, but now it's gone.
RIP KDE
RIP QT
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Bad taste in the mouth
by wtf123 on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @08:46
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This leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Particularly for people who are not paid for working on KDE. Who controlls the future of their toolkit and who benefits from testing, reporting bugs, writing applications...? That's quite important. KDE adds a lot of value to Qt. The fact that a single company is privileged in "chanalizing" this value might not be motivating.
BSD'ing and LGPL'ing would help.
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Message from Eirik Chambe-Eng and Haavard Nord
by Stephen on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @08:48
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Meesage from Eirik Chambe-Eng and Haavard Nord to the KDE Community;
So long, and thanks for all the fish.
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sucks
by ano on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @08:56
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This news really sucks.
I can no longer depend on nokia for supporting the next gen linux desktop.
In few months all lead developers of QT will leave Nokia...
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The good news
by Stephen on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @09:02
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now we are certainly going to have native DRM support for KDE 4.2!!!
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Google wasn't available??!!??
by Richard Lionhard on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @09:36
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Google wasn't available?
They would at least let it be open source.
You guys sold out!!!
Hope your conscience eats you. Seriously! The whole open source world is watching and we will ridicule you once Nokia starts wrestling power and jobs away from you, one at a time..
Let's see if development still continues at this great pace, or will slow down. Wonder if this will even cost you programmers, that don't approve of this merger.
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Congrats!
by Chris H on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @10:02
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Congrats to Trolltech for making a product that was worthy of such a large purchase!
Congrats to the KDE community for testing (and, in some cases, fixing) such a great toolkit!
And, of course, congrats to the future -- only Good Things will come of this.
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Be realistic
by m. on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @10:19
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Hello,
After all that bitterness maybe something realistic. Announcement like that was inevitable. TT was just a small fish. Some surprise is buyer. But all that badmouthing of Nokia is an overreaction. Not that they don't deserve it but ALL corporations are behaving like that. For all big names in IT world you could tell ugly stories.
About future: someone already wrote that. Nokia really needs crossplatform tool like Qt. With UMPCs, top boxes, more and more complicated smartphones demands of desktop and mobile world aren't so different. *If* Nokia will not put special effort to crippling desktop version of Qt + laying off several hackers working on KDE nothing should really change. Maybe Aaron will quit PR role and spend more time on coding :)
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Qtopia vs. traditional Qt
by Thomas on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @10:23
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Nokia will push Qtopia (if they're going to use it on some of their mobile devices), but at the same time stop any further development of Qt (to harm Google or others which started to built their apps on top of Qt). Trolltechs manpower will be directed towards Qtopia or other software projects inside Nokia and shifted away from Qt. Some of the core Qt developers will eventually start to feel sad about this direction at some point and leave the company.
Yeah, Nokia is great.. big company... big money.. and unbeatable instinct how to ruin peoples motivation and failing all over with forward-looking projects. Selling the usual devices and being aggressive at making contracts with providers. That's their job, that's what these guys are used to... and that's it.
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BSD'ing
by T. J. Brumfield on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @11:16
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This notion that going BSD license will help is just plain rubbish.
Rubbish, rubbish, and more rubbish. The dual license model allows TT to have some income, and to pay for development. never underestimate that. The BSD license would mean that rivals can steal code and offer nothing back, and on top of that, the BSD license would prevent including GPL code.
While it might seem that BSD is less restrictive, from a certain sense, going BSD would pigeon-hole QT development.
I must say I'm wary of the Nokia deal, but going BSD is not the solution.
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OSS commitment of Nokia
by Little fish on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @11:17
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I'm really undecided if I should cheer or cry.
Nokias current involvement in OSS (as in Maemo) shows, that they are *NOT* committed to Open- and Free-Software.
They basically release only things they *have* to release due to the GPL/LGPL, but nearly all things they can keep closed source, are kept this way.
Best example: The OS2008 (Maemo) tray-applets (volume-, brightness-slider etc.) are kept CLOSED even if they bear no real intellectual property that's worth to protect. This alone shows their commitment to the FLOSS world (i.e. just pure opportunism and "old-economy values").
I *really* hope not only TT shareholders will profit from this.
It's a serious thing that happened and given the possible influence of development priorities we all have to look very closely!
On the positive side:
If we will see Qt(opia) on more Nokia embedded devices and if they really support this way, chances are good they choose Linux instead of doing all as Qt on Symbian and we will have a nice future of Linux based embedded devices (Android and Qtopia) right in front of us.
Anyway, let's hope the best because otherwise we all have to cry ;-)
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gobble gobble!
by ninja on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @11:20
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munch munch and gobble gobble,
the closed source hounds gulp and swallow,
when will microsoft acquire the nix,
pasty white coders looking for their money fix
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I can't understand you...
by Martin on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @11:33
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Why are you bashing on Nokia? Don't you think Nokia will read all these posts and perhapse decide on something like that, if they will continue development of Qt? Nokia is the most important partner of KDE, now. You cannot know what Nokia's aim is. But if you start bashing it will be much easier for them not to support Qt any longer and to focus on Qtopia. Be friendly to the companies you rely on!
What is the worst that could happen? Qt to be released under an BSD licence because of FreeQt agreement? KDE has to fork from current development of Qt 4.4? Well if it happens KDE has to do more work. That would be bad. But it would also offer other possibilities for KDE. I could imagine that Google would start helping KDE to develop Qt, so that they can use it for their (few) apps. Or Opera, or Skype. There are so many companies who need Qt and would probably support a BSD licenced Qt hosted at KDE. So don't worry.
Personally I think Nokia bought TT for two reasons. First of all they want Qtopia. I don't think they want to hurt Motorola. Motorola is a partner of Android. That's a threat. Nokia needs Qtopia to compete with Android.
The second thing is Qt and KDE. KDE 4 is so powerful. I could imagine that Nokia wants to have Plasma on their smartphones. And that would be the best that could happen to the KDE community. Perhaps Nokia would start to develop apps in an Open Source model for KDE?
Give them a chance. Now Nokia has the possibility to prove that they really support Open Source.
Personally I was not very happy with Nokia during the last week because of Bochum. But today my feelings towards Nokia became better again. This can be a great chance for KDE. If Nokia becomes a Patron and supports the development of KDE there will only be winners. So please stop bashing.
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Think Positive? But can't help thinking negative
by fred on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @12:29
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Lets think positive:
1. Nokia wants to further integrate Qt/Qtopia into their mobile phones on top of symbian or maybe Linux? (and maybe integrating Qt/Qtopia into the internet tables - since Nokia often expresses their disappointments with GTK due to lack of roadmap)
2. By using Qt, they can get tons of high quality open source software to be deployed on their internet tables for free, such as office (KOffice), pim (Kontact + friends).
3. This acquisition might boost Trolltech and KDE/Qt as well since they're now backed by the largest mobile phone vendor on earth.
But I can't stop thinking negative:
1. For how long Nokia will release Qt/Qtopia under GPL 2/3? Sure KDE can always fork it and release under BSD, but it will really hurt as the current development model is both parties are benefited from Qt. Nokia can close the development of Qt in the future and make it only commercial software.
2. What will happen to Qt/Desktop? Sure Qt/Desktop and Qtopia share the same core, but they might be only interested to the core and neglect the Qt/Desktop? Why on earth Nokia have to buy the whole company if they want a cross-platform synchronization tool? For sure, selling a crossplatform toolkit might be less interesting for them, despite of Google, Adobe, skype all using Qt.
3. What about the fate of the competitors who are using Qtopia?
4. Will Nokia still sponsor the KDE developers to work on KDE? Yes they say support for open source will be the same, but we've been promised that for million times, when Apple forked KHTML, when Novell purchased SuSE and yet we've seen disappointment all over the place.
Only time will tell, I can only pray for good things for Qt, KDE, Trolltech and Nokia. Good luck for us all!!
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a link worth to read
by djouallah mimoune on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @12:49
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i just find this article in zdnet, i think it make the situation more clear.
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39292448,00.htm
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re-Frain
by andy on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @12:59
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I am just saying "Tim Frain", Nokia's anti-software tool for ruthless software patent promotion at the expense of European creators. Tim Frain, the radical proponent behind so much Intellect.UK and EICTA policy proposals in Europe that put SMEs and independent software development at risk.
http://www.timfrain.co.uk/index.html
Sure he also had his say on the acquisition. Which makes me think about the possible real forces behind the deal. Novell taking Suse made MS-Novell possible. What safeguards does Nokia provide?
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IWFM
by JRT on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @13:01
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This seems like a logical business move. Nokia needs a GUI for its products and TT currently develops a GUI toolkit and is not currently a profitable company.
There is also the webbrowsing issue. IIUC, Nokia currently currently uses WebKit and TT is going to adopt WebKit as part of Qt.
I hope that Nokia is also doing this because they intend to use KDE for their products (as Sun uses GNOME). If that is the case, it looks like all of this will lead to a beneficial synergy and it will insure that TT will continue in business since they will no longer need to be profitable to survive.
Possible benefit for KDE is that Nokia will have their software developers working on KDE. They will probably be more interested in fixing the bugs which KDE really needs.
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I'm less worried about a sinister plan
by Skeith on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @13:11
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The open source-ness of qt has been ensured by both Trolltech and Nokia. I'm just worried about Nokia not getting the open source thing like Apple did. If all the current practices for qt development are kept then this is a great thing that will benefit everybody.
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This is a problem
by RJ on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @15:04
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This is a problem in the lunux community. Everyone runs around looking for the bad, rather than just sitting back and watching what unfolds. For allyou know this could be the best thing to happen, so stop the panic and worry and let it unfold.
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I'm not the only one who sees Doom & Gloom
by Richard Lionhard on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @17:24
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http://mobile.slashdot.org/mobile/08/01/28/136204.shtml
Slashdot readers agree with me wholeheardetly.
Nokia, thanks for destroying something that promised to be so great. Qt, will become useful only for mobile phone (smartphone) related stuff, and that will be it sadly.
150 million? Trolltech could have sold their soul for much more money. MySQL got 1 Billion dollars. *Dr. Evil pose*
Hopefully the trolltech guys have some time looking for other jobs, as I doubt they have the job security they had in the past.
Well hopefully Nokia will embrace KDE and the Linux desktop community as well. Maybe they will even make a new Linux based set-top box similar to Apple TV.
I'm trying to stay positive but it's hard. Where is the reassuring news from Nokia? Nokia needs to post something positive, concrete, and believeable VERY SOON. That reasuring open letter, while a nice gesture, means nothing.
We will be watching the level of commitment, the number of weekly commits, and any other measure of progress very closely.
Well at least this part of the Linux world stayed in Europe and didn't sell to a U.S. company. Here in Europe the legal system at least protects the open source world somewhat. Maybe Nokia will rethink software patents too now.
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![[KDE Dot News]](http://www.kde.org/dot/Images/kdedotnews.gif)
Posted by Aaron Seigo on Monday 28/Jan/2008, @02:59