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let's hope
by anon on Thursday 21/Feb/2008, @17:10
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let's hope they can bring kmail into the future instead of the anal past. kmail can't really compare with email clients any more, it is too stale. You just have to look at windows live mail, and apple mail to see the direction people want their email clients to go. While kmail remains anal about html etc, linux will suffer. People coming from windows do not want to be back in early 90's with a text based email client.
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Re: let's hope
by kk on Thursday 21/Feb/2008, @17:21
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I'm sorry, but please leave me out of your "future". I'm a happy KMail user since years and I really can live without fancy-shmancy HTML emails. I rather hope that they stabilize the IMAP support. I still have to remove KMail's local indexes occasionally because it just screwed up the order or got a hickup if a new mail comes in at the same time I delete a large mail.
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Re: let's hope
by Ian Monroe on Thursday 21/Feb/2008, @18:44
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I believe one of the major reasons behind the creation of Akonadi was the IMAP situation in KMail.
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Re: let's hope
by Cypher on Thursday 21/Feb/2008, @21:43
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*You* can live without it... but do remember that KDE-PIM Enterprise means that it could be used for business. And it's sad to say, but it's nowhere near a professional soft. I find it too messy (what is that window showing the parts of the e-mail ? KMail is the only one doing that, I find it useless, it should be optional instead of default).
As long as geeks make soft for geeks, there will be usability issues.
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Re: let's hope
by Paul Eggleton on Thursday 21/Feb/2008, @21:56
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Funny, I frequently encounter usability issues in Microsoft Outlook 2007, and yet I'm sure it is used by millions of businesses around the world.
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Re: let's hope
by Cypher on Thursday 21/Feb/2008, @22:25
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I didn't mean that the other products around were perfect either ;) There are usability issues in every product. Let's then try to make Kontact (and its sub-components) better than the others, which is not the case for the moment.
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Re: let's hope
by NabLa on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @00:55
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I second that. While I personally loathe HTML emails, most people want to be able to at least do some HTML formatting.
And I agree with a previous post. That pane with all the different components on the email... what's that all about? Lots of wasted space IMO, and very messy.
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Re: let's hope
by Anon on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @01:00
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"Lots of wasted space IMO, and very messy."
Shrink it down to zero size.
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Re: let's hope
by Segedunum on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @08:05
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Why? Why not come up with something better for displaying attachments?
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Re: let's hope
by mahoutsukai on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @13:31
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Update to KDE 3.5.9 instead of complaining.
From http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/PIM/Features_3.5.9:
Aggregated attachment view in the mail header area of the reader window
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Re: let's hope
by André on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @02:29
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I find it to be a key feature, actually. I simply love this view of my messages. It allows me to quickly get out attachments, for instance. It also allows me to to see a message in plain text view by default, but switch to HTML view in a snap. That other programs don't have it is no argument. That is called innovation.
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Re: let's hope
by Stefan Majewsky on Saturday 23/Feb/2008, @12:12
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+1
As a programmer, I'm a friend of detailed analyses in general, and of this message components view in particular.
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Re: let's hope
by nzivkovic on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @12:53
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Last time I checked, Kmail can read HTML quite nicely.
There's a little button at the top of the message that asks you to click on it if you wish to view the html message.
If you don't like the window showing the tree of files in the email, then you can turn it off by dragging the resize bar of that window to the very bottom of the app.
You shouldn't judge an application based on 4 minutes of use.
Kmail is *significantly* more configurable and user-friendly than MS Outlook and Apple Mail.
And if you like those apps instead of Kmail, then go use Windows or Mac.
However, if you are willing to learn a new (and IMHO better) way of doing things, then stick around and let the good times roll.
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Re: let's hope
by Renaud on Tuesday 26/Feb/2008, @12:33
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> what is that window showing the parts of the e-mail ?
> KMail is the only one doing that, I find it useless, it should be optional instead of default
Are you kidding?
That is one of the greatest features i've seen in a MUA and I use it frequently. Don't you get any multi-part message? It gets really great when you have a mail with attached files embeded in another mail.
And if you don't like, juste disable it in the config.
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Re: let's hope
by Anon on Tuesday 26/Feb/2008, @12:49
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"And if you don't like, juste disable it in the config.And if you don't like, juste disable it in the config."
Appearance -> Layout -> Message Structure Viewer, BTW, for anyone who is curious.
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Re: let's hope
by Joe on Thursday 21/Feb/2008, @19:04
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Yeah, I'm all set with your vision of the future, thanks. Been using Kmail for years and love it. You sound very well-versed...so much so that you should start your own mail client and leave ours alone.
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Re: let's hope
by Planetzappa on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @00:51
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Oh come *on*. Don't bash people who complain about KMail's mediocre HTML support. I'm using KMail happily at home for years and I appreciate the work of all contributors a lot, but I would still very much like to see correctly rendered HTML mails (which I don't for almost 100% of them).
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Re: let's hope
by ac on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @11:16
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If you find that HTML emails are not displayed correctly, then it's a bug in the rendering engine that you should consider reporting. The few HTML emails I receive are usually rendered correctly.
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Re: let's hope
by Moritz Moeller-Herrmann on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @01:48
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I absolutely agree. Most people today do not even know about HTML etc. They don't need to. HTML should be default, with pure text optional for those who like it. Today every mail client can cope with HTML mails and the formatting info does not matter for today's bandwidth (not even mentioning spam!).
In addition, some nice things from Outlook should be integrated, e.g. a right mouse click option of "Find related emails" (simple but useful).
The most important thing of AKonadi will be non-blocking spam checking. This is what makes kmail a pain in the ass to use. I have been waiting for this for more than five years!
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Re: let's hope
by André on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @02:33
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Yes, I agree that non blocking operations (getting data from the server, filtering, whatever else you want to do with it) is key. I am the original reporter of KDE's most hated bug back in 2002(!): http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41514
Pledging money to get it solved did not work, but I hope Akonadi will finally kill this bug.
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Re: let's hope
by Bobby on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @07:15
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"The most important thing of AKonadi will be non-blocking spam checking. This is what makes kmail a pain in the ass to use."
That the worst thing about Kmail, something that make me want to hate this programme sometimes. I just hope that this problem will be solved soon. Kmail has the potential of becoming a great e-mail client but there are still a few things to be ironed out before it gets there.
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Re: let's hope
by Bobby on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @07:02
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Even when compared to Evolution or Thunderbird it lags behind IMO. I am still using Kmail, not because it's such a good e-mail client but because Evolution failed me in openSuse 10.1 (it had some issues with storing my password) and i couldn't bother any more. I wasn't impressed by Kmail, especially it's complicated setup and speed but I continued to use it with the hope that it will improve.
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Re: let's hope
by Mike on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @09:32
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Why exactly are we reinventing Evolution here anyways? Wouldn't it be easier just to port Evolution to KDE 4/Qt? Evolution is so much better, works great with MS-Outlook environments and does everything I need it to.
Why develop a separate program? Why not just merge it with Evolution? I though KDE and gnome had an interoperability/shared resources agreement a few years ago? Wasn't that the idea behind it?
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Re: let's hope
by Anon on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @09:55
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"Why exactly are we reinventing Evolution here anyways?"
Who is "we"? I'm not even sure that Evolution predates KMail. Anyway, I don't think that building a modular and well-designed PIM suite integrated with KDE counts as "reinventing Evolution", anyway.
"Wouldn't it be easier just to port Evolution to KDE 4/Qt"
I'm sure the GNOME guys would love it if someone ported their official mail client to a completely different toolkit!
And no - "porting Evolution to KDE 4/Qt" is basically the same statement as "starting from scratch, write a KDE 4/ Qt mail client that is a clone of Evolution".
"Why not just merge it with Evolution?"
It would be great if you had the slightest grasp of software engineering before you started second-guessing the KDE developers.
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Re: let's hope
by Kevin Kofler on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @10:25
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Evolution has tons of bugs, it's probably the GNOME component which gets most complaints about bugginess on the Fedora mailing lists. And it would be infeasible to port it to KDE anyway, it's already hard enough for them to move it from the obsolete GNOME technologies it's using to the current GNOME ones.
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Re: let's hope
by Kevin Krammer on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @10:50
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> Why exactly are we reinventing Evolution here anyways?
In case you are referring to EDS (Evolution Data Server): Akonadi is more a next generation implementation of the same principle, including a wider range of use cases (e.g. also handle e-mails).
> Wouldn't it be easier just to port Evolution to KDE 4/Qt?
Most likely not, but it would certainly be possible to port Evolution to Akonadi.
In December I started working on an EDS adapter for Akonadi based on the D-Bus enabled version of EDS, but then migration D-Bus got removed from the GNOME roadmap. Though I might have a look at a later time, i.e. once we have Akonadi released and our application stack upon it working properly.
> I though KDE and gnome had an interoperability/shared resources agreement a few years ago?
No formal agreement, since this wouldn't be possible (both projects are driven by their contributor communities and do not have some kind of official body which can do binding agreements regarding development).
There is some consensus that service oriented strategies allow us to share certain infrastructure easier than bringing foreign components into the others software stack, but infrastructure can not be replaced from one day to the next because there are all sorts of compatibilty and migration issues that need to be taken care of
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Re: let's hope
by Kerr Avon on Saturday 23/Feb/2008, @03:07
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"I wasn't impressed by Kmail, especially it's complicated setup and speed but I continued to use it with the hope that it will improve."
I definitely agree about the complicated set-up! I consider myself an intermediate level Linux user but I could not configure Kmail (on Fedora 8) to access my POP accounts without referring to the help. Whilst this was generaly well-written, it was out of date as some of the screens had been renamed. Dejargonizing and making the configuration of POP accounts much more user friendly will certainly help Kmail adoption.
I am not advocating a "dumbing down" of the program (which I know is anathema to many KDE devs) but simply removing UNNECESSARY complexity. Both Thunderbird and Evolution have this one aspect right, so surely Kmail can be improved to surpass them.
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Re: let's hope
by Mike5000 on Friday 22/Feb/2008, @12:37
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I use KMail because KMail has by far the best interface for working with a few hundred mail folders. My only problem with KMail is that it is very fragile when connections timeout - not a problem on DSL or better but tiresome on dialup.
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