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Re: Asking for money
by Eric Laffoon on Tuesday 26/Feb/2008, @16:46
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You're welcome to be blunt. What is your experience managing free software projects and releasing software is how I would be blunt.
I'm hardly desperate, but as a point of fact that you may not be aware of our project has been based on a sponsored development model since shortly after the 0.9x releases of Quanta Plus in 2000. The first several years were exclusively funded with thousands of dollars of my own money. I eliminated cable and every other expense I could think of. Nobody complained about that. Sadly if I don't ask for money our sponsorship and and donations wither and die over time, with the exception of a few very generous sponsors. Our one remaining sponsored developer who writes the vast majority of the code in this project was recently considering his options and could easily get 3-6 times what I've been paying him if he were willing to move. Now that he has a child I have to consider if I can grow my own personal income fast enough to remove that agonizing consideration or get help from the community. The thing is we are not just best friends, but his value is inestimable and if I were him I can't say I'd stay at our current level of sponsorship. That really shouldn't be desperate considering less than 1% of our vast user base could sway things easily. So here I am again, doing my least favorite thing.
I can appreciate your not liking people asking for money, and let's be honest, that is what you're saying. The fact that I have not done it for over a year is evidence of how much I don't enjoy asking for money! That doesn't change things. Now if I had a larger more successful company it would be different. The problem is that you are under the grand misunderstanding that when you're using KDE you're not really seeing sponsored development. Let's look at that...
When you use KParts or Kword you're using the work of a sponsored developer who has worked for several companies that let him do KDE development. The same goes for KSpread, and the most famous KPart is KHTML which of course was developed by Trolltech people. Honestly I'm not sure if they worked on it on their own time, but I do know that if you look at the new KDE4 desktop you're looking at a lot of work by a sponsored developer. Also if you run the KDE version of OO.org you're using the work of sponsored developers. In fact the developer who started KDE ended up working for Trolltech, but he doesn't have near so much time for KDE now. While we're on the subject maybe you've heard of Linus Torvolds and Alan Cox? Everybody who writes code has to eat and put a roof over their head, and paying for those things and writing code are demanding enough you end up not doing much of one or the other.
The point is, I'm not Trolltech, SUSE or some other company who can afford to dump a lot of money into projects... But I have developed several very successful programs that are popular in the community. Unlike buying someone some beer and pizza you have an opportunity to directly contribute to funding that enables that project continue unhindered. How many projects can you have the impact on you can with ours? Not many.
At the end of the day, even as much as I HATE asking for money I know that at least I took action to make something happen. Sadly a lot of people have the mistaken idea that free software is this benevolent entitiy that churns out software they don't have to pay for and they fail to realize it is about freedom and control. It's sad because people fail to understand the risk of not taking action. It's an irony that companies spend so much money sponsoring development and paying to fly developers from all over the world to annual conferences to keep our efforts vital and focused and those of us trying to really involve the commity don't just have to contend with apathy, but the suggestion that fund raising efforts should be kept off community web sites... sites here because of generous sponsorship... Ironically if I had an extra $10K to play with I'd rather spend it on development than ask for any help.
What are you doing to improve the community experience with free software? I guess I should thank you for forcing me to do the requisite defense of our development model. Thanks. Did I mention I hate asking for money? I care about Andras and our project and users so I endure asking when I don't have the money myself, and I'm not discussing how much of my money I've put into this project.
Our development model works! A fraction of a percent of everyone in free software carries the other 99+%. I think I can live with that, but only if I'm in that fraction of a percent that makes a difference. I'm thinking it bothers some people to consider that. If it makes you uncomfortable it's not my problem. I'm doing whatever I can to improve the user experience and secure the future of great software... even if I have to utterly humiliate myself to get it done. Those people who contribute to our project can feel good that they are helping a development team with with a seven year track record of producing results, supporting users and winning awards. I have to think that's more uplifting than complaining about the fact that money is a part of free software. I expect you just weren't aware of all the details. |
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Re: Asking for money
by care bear on Tuesday 26/Feb/2008, @21:37
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personally, I think more geeks should give the coders of DE like KDE and Gnome stipends now and then, out of appreciation.
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Re: Asking for money
by The Vigilant on Tuesday 26/Feb/2008, @23:30
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The comparisons you are making are not valid. You are mixing up donations and company funding under the same "sponsored" tag. I am not aware of any other project that works like yours. Which is fine.
My point was not to stop you from asking money, an unpleasant task to say the least, but to put a little bit less personal drama into it. It was an observation of how the wordy explanations sounds from the outside.
Well, I hope you get sufficient funding. Wish you all the best.
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Re: Asking for money
by Oscar on Wednesday 27/Feb/2008, @04:49
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I think it's perfectly OK to ask for money here. I probably wouldn't have donated at all if it weren't for the article and the fact that he wanted money. He contributes to the community in a way that he can (coding and funding the project) and the rest of us that either don't have the skill or the time to code will have to show our support some other way.
I've chosen to donate the money I get for being in a "consumer panel" to encourage work on open source and free software. It's not much but I do think it's more than what the average user of free software donates, and it makes me feel good.
So I do think articles on "the dot" that explains what a project does and why they need money are good and they should keep coming. Hopefully there are more people like me that get inspired and donates a few bucks. $5 actually sent are more than "I'll give $100 later".
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Re: Asking for money
by anon on Wednesday 27/Feb/2008, @19:38
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$100, for someone who freely decided to develop and work on this project. Why not give you money to something more needy. 30,000 children die from starvation each day, but hey, give money to someone who freely decided to work on this project, rather than truly needy people in the world
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Re: Asking for money
by Eric Laffoon on Wednesday 27/Feb/2008, @21:31
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Why not do both? Usually people saying such things do niether. In fact statistically it's a safe bet. I have gotten people money to help them out recently in the form of finding work for them to do that I didn't need to have done. So what? That's not relevent to this topic.
I once received an email from a man in his mid 20s in Africa who had been out of work for three years. He was building web sites with Quanta Plus and he was so excited to be earning a living and taking care of his family... He wanted to send a donation. I told him not to. No amount of money is more valuable than knowing you changed someone's life. So what is morally superior, giving a man a fish or giving a man a fishing pole? I don't consider the moral superiority so much as I think about the man and his needs. Many people in third world countries have to choose between illegally using stolen commercial software or free alternatives. For these people an office suite can be a large portion of their annual income. Free software can make a difference there. Even in more prosperous countries few people can afford $100-$500 every time a new task comes up they need to do.
I may have volunteered to work on this, as well as spend thousands of dollars of my own money on it over the years, but Andras is sponsored and it is his primary source of income. Your argument effectively says supporting us bringing the tools of economic freedom in free software isn't as good as a handout of food to hungry people and therefore you can't see financially supporting it. Your moral argument equates to "support commercial software with money, but don't support free (as in freedom) software with money." Or is your position to just steal commercial software?
I'd like to think your average teen ager has a better grasp of ethics and social conscience. I'm doing something to make the world better. I think that's important. You should examine your motivations. If you're not trying to make the world a better place then don't think you should argue for it without first having a clue!
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Re: Asking for money
by Oscar on Wednesday 27/Feb/2008, @21:51
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Actually I do. I donate money to Amnesty International, I donate blood as often as I'm allowed, my wife donates money to an alcohol damage prevention organisation and works as a volonteer for the red cross every now and then, and we're thinking about being "world parents" to an african or asian kid to help them through school. If I can help needy of all kinds, why not do it?
I can only assume you do something similar?
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Re: Asking for money
by Eric Laffoon on Thursday 28/Feb/2008, @20:27
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Yes I do. I also contribute to animal rescue and donate to several foundations, plus I sponsor developers which enables them to live where they want and work on free software, and I have a small business which employs over a dozen people with supplemental income. I am actively planning to dramatically reduce my carbon footprint in the coming few years to no petrochemical fuel consumption, but this site and story is about software. At least one post here seems have been suggesting it would be morally superior to not contribute to free software, which in fact promotes free economies and economic welfare.
What I hope to find when I come here is something about using Kommander, questions, comments, somewhere I can help. This project is very dear to me and lots of people have used it. It would be nice to get the right focus. There is nothing else out there like Kommander and it will only get better... assuming I can cross from where I am to where I can better fund it. Maybe I shouldn't care if others are enjoying it? I certainly am. ;-)
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Re: Asking for money
by Paul Eggleton on Wednesday 27/Feb/2008, @22:39
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Agreed - in fact it was reading Eric's words in an earlier article that inspired me to donate, too. I was really quite impressed that someone would not only put significant amounts of their own money into directly sponsoring free software developers, but would also have the courage to ask others to do the same; and that such an enterprise could be reasonably successful over a number of years. IMHO it is even more impressive when you consider that the software (Quanta / Kommander) is only tangential to Eric's core business.
Thanks Eric & Andras, and keep up the good work :)
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Re: Asking for money
by Eric Laffoon on Thursday 28/Feb/2008, @20:35
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Thanks Paul. It's great to read your comments. To bring out full disclosure, actually it was when I got very ill a few years ago I first asked for help. It's funny really. The community rallied and I remember thinking "I'm an idiot! I'm trying to do this all myself. I should get others involved."
Our projects have been successful and I honestly wish I could say I had less to do with it. I'm 50 years old, and while I'm healthy now I've been deathly ill twice in the last five years. Facing one's mortality adds urgency to build bigger. It may mean less sleep, or more effort or the humbling work of asking for help and explaining to people why your request is valid... When I'm gone I hope my name appears in some history book as someone who proved community could work to better the lives of others at the dawn of the internet. That would make it all worthwhile.
You are one of the people who give me the concrete affirmation I am doing the right thing and my efforts haven't gone unnoticed. Thanks for your kind words and support Paul.
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Re: Asking for money
by Eric Laffoon on Wednesday 27/Feb/2008, @21:40
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Well we agree. Had I not been so busy and put this off it might seem less dramatic, but in fact I did try my best to filter out any drama. There is still the inherent reality, and it doesn't help that I push myself so hard that my immune system is trashed and I go from feeling fine to feeling like I'm fighting a cold because I should sleep more.
I apologize if I didn't succeed in being less dramatic. It's the fact that things are so near a tipping point. On the bright side, all I have to do is do things right busines wise for six months and I'm in a position to begin setting up a charitable foundation. That would enable us to have relatively unlimited funding, but also without a gracious benefector it's about $5000 to set up. That means the expansion I tried to put together last year needs to be debugged this year. I hope it is.
With any luck I'll have it in place this time next year... However for now it seems showing up on Saturday is great and on Monday is horrible... so I timed my submission for Saturday... and yeah, it hit on Monday. All in all I could be having a better week. I think I'll go sleep soon and see if a few more people are out during the week.
Thanks for your kind wishes too, and sorry if I missed my goals.
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Re: Asking for money
by Me on Wednesday 16/Apr/2008, @16:59
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I apologize in advance if this is not proper for this setting. This is new to me; I am learning and am in need.
A tooth broke off, almost to the gum. To say it is uncomfortable is an understatement. I went to the dentist and it will cost just over $900. for x-rays, office visit, prep work and to completely restore the tooth with a crown. I’ve always tried to take care of my teeth and desperately want to restore this one. It’s toward the front and very visible.
I am an older person with a very tight budget and no close family (in other words, no one I can turn to for financial help.) I do not have money to take care of this.
I have opened an account at: www.PayPal.com After you log on to their web site, my account address is: pray4worldpeace @gmail.com
This tooth needs attention now. Have you ever had a tooth ache? Please find it in your heart to put a few dollars into the PayPal account. Thank you very much.
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Re: Asking for money
by Max on Thursday 28/Feb/2008, @12:03
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Great post!!!
-Max
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Re: Asking for money
by Ellis Hertzik on Wednesday 19/Mar/2008, @05:16
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I am here to worship, all of the correct and honest. lip all help. and now would like to ask a question. why, when we see a dog, we have to help give food, sometimes taking home downpayment, and some they inherit their condition. but, but when seen lying in the street rights, the homeless, often hungry, we try to be passing, "I am afraid drabble"? For instance, I strongly helping to fund, which supports the such people, but most lack the funds .. It may need to support those people who are involved! If you want to do this, if you are interested, please write to me, I Ellis, I will tell you everything.
Ellis Hertzik
ds@safat.us
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