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KDE System tools lacking
by Tray on Thursday 28/Feb/2008, @14:41
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KDE may have great specialty apps, but when it comes to integration with system tools like ConsolieKit, Apt, PackageKit, NetworkManager it's seriously behind the competition.
This is largely thanks to Red Hat and Canonical, who are throwing money behind the competition because it chose a licensing model that sucks up to closed source proprietary ISVs. The same ISVs that want to use Linux without giving anything back.
We see the same troubling attitude from the competition when it's leaders in the form of the GNOME Foundation decided to stab the open standards community in the back and give legitimacy to M$'s patent-poisoned OOXML.
KDE, on the other hand, it fully protected by the best copyleft Free Software licenses: GPLv2 and recently GPLv3.
The KDE community has got to do better in spreading the word that if developers want to promote Free and Open Source Software, they should help out KDE and shun the competition sellouts. |
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Re: KDE System tools lacking
by Will Stephenson on Thursday 28/Feb/2008, @15:05
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> KDE may have great specialty apps, but when it comes to integration with system > tools like ConsolieKit, Apt, PackageKit, NetworkManager it's seriously behind
> the competition.
Funny you should say that, I'm sat here at midnight working on NetworkManager 0.7 support as I have been doing all week in my day job at Novell. We had knetworkmanager as soon as NM was in openSUSE. This afternoon I spoke on IRC with one of my counterparts on the KDE Team at RedHat on how we could complete Admin mode support in KDE 4 using PolicyKit. And at the weekend I and several other openSUSE guys had a discussion with the PackageKit guy at FOSDEM.
Apt, I don't care about, libzypp in openSUSE 11.0 is going to make it look like your grandad's package tool
My point? KDE (and its distro backers) are actively supporting these technologies, as they mature.
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Re: KDE System tools lacking
by Tray on Thursday 28/Feb/2008, @15:30
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I'm impressed how the KDE team at Novell/OpenSUSE has indeed remained supportive of KDE despite detracting forces like Migues de Icaza and the Ximian people. Keep up the good work!
As for Red Hat, at best they're all talk and no action when it comes to KDE, and at worst they're actively badmouthing and crippling it to make it look bad compared to GNOME. How long has it been since a Red Hat employee has committed something to KDE's SVN? Months if not years. This isn't necessarily a reflection of individual developers' desires, but rather of Red Hat's business agenda for the past six years:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/09/26/kde_red_hat_spat_escalates/
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Re: KDE System tools lacking
by anon on Thursday 28/Feb/2008, @17:31
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to be honest, Novell has taken a lot of ignorant statements because of their deal with microsoft, but if it wasn't for all the hard work that Novell has done, the linux community would be years behind where they are now. It is the hard work of the novell teams that are bringing some amazing features to KDE and to the linux world. I take my hat off to you Novell/opensuse teams, you have truly benefited the linux community more than some people would like to acknowledge.
I've recently decided to try a few other distro's again, all the alpha's and without a doubt, opensuse is still years in front of the competition.
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Re: KDE System tools lacking
by Debian User on Friday 29/Feb/2008, @00:03
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The Linux community would be far more advanced if not for uncompetetive behaviour from the competition.
This competition is IBM, HP, Sun. The last of them actually vowed recently to support Linux against Patent attackers with its own Patents.
And that competition is Microsoft who is in standby mode of attacking Linux and doing everything to forbid competition with its products.
The truth of fact is that in make its deal with Microsoft, the only thing Novell did achieve was to weaken the general pressure to open Microsoft information to everybody. The longer that takes, the more beneficial to Microsoft, and Novell let Microsoft buy out of that for, granted, a lot of money for its share holders.
I am never going to thank Novell for the buy out. Not for the FUD that it helped spread, and for the idea that patent protection for unspecified patents is needed and worth some money. I am not going to thank them for helping to force smaller Linux companies into deals with Microsoft that hurt their bottom line.
And while your at it. Try out Kubuntu or Fedora with KDE. Those guys did not see a need to help Microsoft out of its anti trust problems with EU, because those are well deserved.
That said, thanks for the good things people at Novell do. But I am not going to put up good things against bad things. If an entity does evil or helps evil, it can no longer pay through other deeds and get to heaven. Not even in Church anymore. Even there you have to regret.
Yours,
Kay
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Re: KDE System tools lacking
by reihal on Friday 29/Feb/2008, @02:27
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You "forgot" to mention Mandriva.
Look at the commits, Brazil + France = Mandriva.
CommitsMap.png
60KB (62332 bytes)
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Re: KDE System tools lacking
by Debian User on Friday 29/Feb/2008, @04:39
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Thanks for the addition, you are right. They too were clear about not conspiring against the users.
Yours,
Kay
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Re: KDE System tools lacking
by Kevin Kofler on Thursday 28/Feb/2008, @21:37
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> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/09/26/kde_red_hat_spat_escalates/
Yawn, that 2002 news about RHL 8.0 again! :-( I really don't see how that's relevant to the current state of Red Hat, Fedora, RHEL or anything else. A lot has changed since then.
> How long has it been since a Red Hat employee has committed something to
> KDE's SVN?
Less than one day: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=780193
Kevin Kofler
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Re: KDE System tools lacking
by coward on Friday 29/Feb/2008, @00:36
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> Less than one day: http://websvn.kde.org/?view=rev&revision=780193
That's a translation commit, no code.
Sure translations are very important, but it doesn't bring new or improved technology to KDE.
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Re: KDE System tools lacking
by Debian User on Friday 29/Feb/2008, @08:03
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That's a particularily dumb and dividing comment. It implies many things, none of which you probably can confirm.
The strength of KDE does in particular come from the fact that is is localized so well. Look on the commit map and ponder how few people that commit are native English speakers. The whole KDE project was started by Germans.
And in order to give KDE to their dads, friends, etc. the developers need it to be localized here in Europe. That is why KDE not only has the most localizations and best technology to achieve that. That is why e.g. in KDE 4 we are going to see spellcheckers with automatic language detection per paragraph.
Then of course, if Redhat helps Gnome, what's wrong with that? How is that not helping KDE? Last I listened to e.g. the KDE developers, people said that Gnome was not as good as KDE, but still Free Software and respectable and welcome allies in the battle for Free Desktop Standards.
Out of historic reasons - at the time you had _no_ license to distribute KDE binaries, Redhat had to focus on Gnome initially. And once liberated by Trolltech, the decision was already done. With Redhat for the longest time not being interested in the desktop at all, why should they
You can hardly ask them to care about investing in 2 desktops. A decision that Novell announced as well, just didn't get away with.
Yours,
Kay
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Re: KDE System tools lacking
by Eric Laffoon on Friday 29/Feb/2008, @01:36
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There is an issue with system tools, which is that different distributions do things differently. KDE developers debated this and decided as a whole to leave it to the distributions as no "one size fits all" solution would work. It's a wise choice.
Having said that, look at qtparted, which I don't think there is another graphical tool quite like. Along with which I've seen some others incliding info-systema (sp?) which is based on Kommander. I did an etc-update graphical tool for Gentoo with Kommander.
Here is either a wonderful solution or a "what are you still don't warming the couch" idea... Most system configuration is just text files. If you have a clue how to set them you can point and click an interface together in a few hours with Kommander and distribute it. Since it doesn't need to be compiled every user who has it on their system can run it right away and typical small configuration dialogs tend to run under 100KB. In fact most are under 40 KB and can be posted on our user list to ask questions.
Given that you have a Function Browser to point and click your way to finished scripts and you can also add any other scripting language you like, and you can draw your interface... Seems to me anything missing could be made by the average guy in a few hours. In fact many distributed programs are done by people who never wrote a line of code in their lives.
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