The Fine Print: The following comments
are owned by whomever posted them.
( Reply )
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Riddle on Sunday 09/Mar/2008, @17:31
|
web pages support webkit better.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by NabLa on Monday 10/Mar/2008, @04:24
|
That may be true or perhaps not, truth is that I haven't found many sites as of now that won't work on KHTML (both on last KDE3 and KDE4), but wouldn't be the answer to make KHTML better? Never done anything with webkit, however I'm under the impression that KDE devs think webkit is a bit clunky and complicated to work with. I know that reinventing the wheel is always silly, however KHTML is clean and performant, and has been an integral part of KDE for a very long while. Not to mention that webkit was based on it.
Mind you, the only reason I use Firefox is because of the extensions. If Konq supported them it would be my browser of choice.
Not being funny, but I'm beginning to agree with others about that functionality, stability and performance is being neglected in favour of looks, seemingly ignoring the fact that KDE4 *is* quite buggy at the moment. KHTML is an example of this IMO. File management on desktop, another one. I do use KDE4 on a daily basis though. I miss, though, the rock-solidness and snapiness of KDE3.5. But that's what you get when running very new software so I don't complain and file bug reports instead.
I do remember that KDE3.0 was, well, quite crap, and 3.1 was really good, while 3.2 was amazing, so I would expect the same for KDE4.1.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Terracotta on Monday 10/Mar/2008, @04:39
|
KHTML renders a lot of sites good and it's fast, but when it comes to sites for banking, or other interactive stuff, it leaves a lot to be desired, most possibly because the sites are bad engineered. Safari OTOH has found more acceptance with webdevs and therefore renders the sites I (perhaps other people too) really need, where KHTML does not. Rendering glitches are not really a big issue, as long as the content is shown, but when you really need something interactive to work and it doesn't, it IS a showstopper, therefor three engines that are widely used would most possibly help other html-engines, (opera has the same problem as KHTML, in fact KHTML has less problems than opera, except from maybe the gmail thing), plus the fact that even in the gtk camp, devs are looking more and more in the direction of webkit instead of gecko which makes webkit a more attractive choice.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Diederik van der Boor on Tuesday 11/Mar/2008, @02:30
|
> That may be true or perhaps not, truth is that I haven't found many sites as of now that won't work on KHTML (both on last KDE3 and KDE4),
I'm starting to find more and more sites where KHTML doesn't cut it for me sadly. That's mostly sites doing ajaxy things. I'd love to report those, can't find time to make a simple testcase and therefore ignored it.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by NabLa on Wednesday 12/Mar/2008, @02:44
|
I can report one or two for you if you post here the URLs
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Grósz Dániel on Monday 10/Mar/2008, @15:28
|
That's OK for WebKit as an alternate renderer for Konqueror. But why for Plasma? What's the point in depending on two HTML rendering engines in a default KDE installation?
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Anon on Wednesday 12/Mar/2008, @14:09
|
Because if KDE4 is a resource hog, everyone will want to use it!
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
I wish more people were asking this question!
by butterfly on Wednesday 12/Mar/2008, @19:28
|
I'd like to know the answer too!
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
proof?
by anon on Wednesday 12/Mar/2008, @19:26
|
Are you just saying this or do you have some kind of statistics? Sounds like FUD.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Sebastian Sauer on Sunday 09/Mar/2008, @18:49
|
See it that way; we have the opportunity to don't only have one very good webbrowser but two of them and both are greatly supported. One is full under our control, community-FOSS and has a rocking codebase while the other is mainly commercial orientated and provided to us. So, looks for me in any case like a win-win situation :)
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Beat Wolf on Monday 10/Mar/2008, @01:26
|
only that khtml will die, because people will choose webkit over khtml, and when there are no users, there are no bugreports, no devs etc.
I'm not saying this is realy a bad thing, just that it is going to happen.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Zayed on Monday 10/Mar/2008, @02:37
|
You should define which people do you mean !!
I will stick with KHTML if it serves my needs
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Erunno on Monday 10/Mar/2008, @06:07
|
Probably the people that are under the impression that the websites supported by KHTML are a true subset of the sites supported by WebKit. In other words, you get all the sites supported by KHTML plus some additional which currently work under WebKit.
I cannot verify or falsify claims about KHTML's and WebKit's compatability since I don't use any of the so-called "Web 2.0" applications and the websites I visit regurarly work well with Konqueror. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say that some distributions shipping KDE will switch to WebKit as soon as they deem it stable hoping to get some compatibility problems people claim to have with KHTML out of the way (and thus easing support). So I doubt that the actual user's choice will play a significant role which of the two engines will be used in the future.
It doesn't also help KHTML's cause that some "other" developers are pushing WebKit hard either via code or by propaganda in the blogosphere.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Erunno on Monday 10/Mar/2008, @07:00
|
Oops, that reply was intended for Zayed:
http://dot.kde.org/1205065133/1205072654/1205088902/1205089355/1205100860/1205102627/1205108027/1205113759/1205137589/1205141830/
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Marc Driftmeyer on Monday 10/Mar/2008, @11:34
|
The sheer amount of projects, personnel, testing and general use cases for WebKit far outpaces KHTML allowing KDE to leverage a lot of resources without having to have the team resources to duplicate such efforts.
It's a nice example of community re-use.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by NabLa on Monday 10/Mar/2008, @17:11
|
I do see the technical reasons, however, I wonder whether the KHTML guys feel left behind... Are they shifting towards working with Apple on WebKit?
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by SadEagle on Monday 10/Mar/2008, @19:47
|
No. There have been many attempts to work with Apple before, but they never worked out. Apple is good at having people work for them, not so much at working with them. And while they have some very nice and very smart people who I respect deeply working for them, they do a lot of things which, while they make sense for them, would be simply insane in a community-driven project.
And, speaking for myself, I will not work on any project which is disconnected from the KDE community and provides no way of protecting our interests. I am not willing to hand over control to a good chunk of our infrastructure to Apple. That Qt will be under control of Nokia is bad enough.
Will there be more tries to work together? Who knows. But at this point, it's all moot, since there aren't enough people interested in proper integration of WebCore (no, thin wrappers around incomplete Qt ports of out-of-date versions of the renderer don't count) for it to happen, while there are plenty of people who will spread FUD and lie to our users. I am personally open to that from the technical POV (the community issues are big, and I am not the sort of person to resolve them), but there are things I want to do myself, bug reports from our users I want to deal with, and bug reports from our users I have to deal with because it seems like no one else will.
And to the grandparent poster: go use IE. It has the best financial backing in the business.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by Patcito on Tuesday 11/Mar/2008, @10:36
|
> I am not willing to hand over control to a good chunk of our infrastructure to Apple
isn't the LGPL supposed to take care of that?
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by SadEagle on Tuesday 11/Mar/2008, @11:22
|
A lot of people believe that, but it's simply not true in 99% of cases. You need people to make things happen, they don't show up out of thin air.
kdeprint was LGPLd, too, but there wasn't an active community around it, so when the main driving force behind it left, it was orphaned, and then abandoned entirely in KDE4. The result is that KDE4 has made a huge step back in printing functionality.
What some people want to see happen with QtWebKit, and in particular the way they are pushing it, make a chance of any KDE community connection with it close to nil, which means things will soon bitrot, and if one of the big corporate pushers has a change in priorities, we'll be pretty screwed.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: webkit in konqueror!
by NabLa on Wednesday 12/Mar/2008, @02:57
|
That's what I would imagine. Personally I'd continue work on KHTML and stuff out Webkit. "Just" port over good features and the like. What I mean is that KDE has got total control over KHTML, its quality is very high and improvements can be made. I don't know about the quality of the source code as I'm not fit to judge that. But I keep my word on that I've yet to come to a site kthml can't handle since... well, probably KDE 3.4.
Not sure if some parts of the KDE project realize that KDE is made by people and people, as such, can get demotivated, angry, etc. If I was a khtml dev I would feel as awkward about trying to shove in Webkit as a kdelibs guy would feel if a different libs infrastructure was pushed in too.
How is Webkit going to be maintainable at all if it ain't provided by apple as a maintainable piece of software?
So I ain't a KDE dev, but the more I think about Webkit and KDE, the less sense it makes. I think whoever's working on Webkit kde is just wasting time they could be using into something more productive (let it be improving KHTML itself, or getting on with their own lives). The "choice is good" argument is a bit weak here. I've got a choice already: Firefox.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
The Fine Print: The previous
comments are owned by whomever posted them.
( Reply )
|
|
![[KDE Dot News]](http://www.kde.org/dot/Images/kdedotnews.gif)
