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Re: Bad promotion
by Kevin Krammer on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @13:35
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Care to list a couple of this "basic issues"?
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Re: Bad promotion
by Stefan Majewsky on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @13:50
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The only "basic issue" I can think of is that KMail fetches mail in its GUI thread with synchronous operations. In a more understandable manner: KMail freezes when checking mail. This is certainly going to be fixed with Akonadi in the 4.2 release.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Bobby on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @05:11
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Yeah, KMail is a pain in the ass. It's the only KDE app that makes me feel like throwing my computer through the windows sometimes and it's slow like a lawyer going to hell. I wish they would fix this before 4.2.
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Re: Bad promotion
by jos poortvliet on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @06:11
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Ever tried Outlook? It's like a million times worse in almost every way... Incredibly hard to configure, unintuitive to use, and boy, don't try search on remote email folders - you'll be looking at a white window you can't even minimize for up to several minutes... Horrible experience, really. KMail rocks in comparison.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Jos And on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @13:59
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Well..lousy imap implemantation in Kmail... and usabilty wise, korganiser sucks big time and has done so for years.. just compare it to google kalender or the kalender thing on OS X.
Aaron Seigo has been a disaster with is promotion of KDE4, plain and simple.
If (K)Ubuntu 8.04 would just include KDE 4 and not KDE 3.5.x then we would see people jump for gnome insted of KDE. I can say that as a 10 year KDE user (since pre 1.0) KDE4 is the most overhyped and worst quality release ever. Seiga promoting this crap is totally absurd and really really makes me mad.
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Re: Bad promotion
by anon on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @14:15
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I view kde4 like vista.
Vista is the driving force of people leaving Windows. I believe KDE4 will be the driving force that has people shift to Gnome. I really don't like that it looks so much like windows. But thankfully, Opensuse really don't like the look of it either and will be adding their own touches to it to make it look more like opensuse before they release it in 11. So here's hoping they can improve it.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Wade on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @14:33
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I view anon troll posts here like I view anon troll posts on other forums.
These posts are the driving force to help people realize they have to make up their own mind and choose software that works well for them. I really don't like that anon troll posts bait me into replying. But thankfully, millions around the marble appreciate the hard work put into KDE. So here's hoping they continue to enjoy it.
See how just a few word changes can make something positive? Please keep criticism 1) constructive 2) clear 3) actionable.
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Re: Bad promotion
by ne... on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @01:38
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Amen, brotha, amen. I for one switched _permanently_ to KDE4 a long time ago and see no reason to go back. Please count as one of the silent many who greatfully use KDE. I see the improvements everytime I update my openSUSE 10.3 install. Fact is, I have not used my FC installs since I started using KDE4. So in closing, all I can say/write is please continue the good work you are doing.KDE4.0 was released at the right time.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Bobby on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @05:21
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The technology under the hood of KDE 4 is what will drive the "interface nazies" (Gnome Users) to KDE unlike what the troll a-non want people to believe. KDE 4 is not quite ready for the masses yet but when it is then I am sure that it will blow away any- and everything out there including OS X. This is something that the Gnomes should worry about ;)
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Re: Bad promotion
by Jos And on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @15:48
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I do agree that it will drive people to Gnome - but that will depend on KDE 4.1 or maybe 4.2 and depond on what K/Ubuntu will do, since its such a popular distro (even tough Kubuntu feels unpolished compared to Ubuntu DE-integrationwise) . I was glad to learn that Kubuntu still will have 3.5.9 along KDe 4.0-x - If it only had 4.0.2 then i would after 10 years have left for Gnome - i wond do it this time.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Bobby on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @05:27
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KUbuntu is not a very good example of what a KDE distro should be like.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Pol on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @10:59
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Can you please elaborate a bit?
As an end-user, confronting concepts about 'good linux distributions' is appealing.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Morty on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @13:30
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Several of the modifications they make to KDE are less than well thought out. They are supposed to be some kind of usability improvements, but in most cases it's only removal of functionality whitout any real gain in usability.
But I find the most telling is when you watch Bugzilla, it seem like it has a higher amount of distribution specific bugs than other distributions. Bugs that don't exist if you compile KDE from source or use other distributions.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Bobby on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @21:17
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Install KUbuntu, PCLinuxOS and openSuse 10.3 on the same computer, all running KDE and then you will understand what I mean.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Debian User on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @10:13
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Hello,
it's not like there is no chance for return if somebody tries out Gnome now, he can always switch back, once KDE has surpassed Gnome again.
There is one reason to have 2 big desktop projects, and that is to allow the users to use them both and switch between them without hassle.
Yours,
Kay
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Re: Bad promotion
by T. J. Brumfield on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @16:18
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First off, as it has been said, anon posters have no sack.
Secondly, you're talking about comparing KDE 4 to Gnome. Why? If you're not happy using KDE 4 right now (and many aren't) there is KDE 3.5.9, which is still being supported. If you honestly think Gnome is better than KDE 3.5.9, then why haven't you switched already? Please do so, and stop posting here.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Debian User on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @10:10
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Hello,
actually I _did_ switch to Gnome on my work desktop out of complete disappointment with KDE4.0.x and my desire to try out something new (I have not tried Gnome since 1.4 days methinks).
Truth is, it's not as good as KDE 3.5.x, but the compositing of Metacity is one of a mature window manager and therefore practical as such.
It's also true that Tracker appears to work and be well integrated, where as Strigi never really worked for me.
Of course gg: and my custom variants of it are much missed in Epiphany now, so that's a bigger drawback.
But on the whole, it's not an as bad experience. In KDE 4.1.x I will return as a user, but for now it's good to break with habits. And KDE 4.0.x, seriously, is such a total and complete failure due to Plasma, that the KDE president should step down. ;-) It certainly would have the right drama about it, not... but still. :-)
Yours,
Kay
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Re: Bad promotion
by m0ns00n on Sunday 30/Mar/2008, @05:21
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I switched to XFCE. I see the whole KDE 4.0 move as a partial betrayal to their current users. I personally just don't know how people can love KDE 4.0. In my opinion it is going in the completely wrong direction. It has become "trendy", "hyped" and not easier to use.
XFCE is not as feature complete as KDE 3.x, but in my opinion it is certainly more mature than KDE 4, and I don't really care what is under the hood, I care about the user experience, and where it is going.
Seeing that KDE 4 probably will keep evolving towards what is Vista and MacOS X(with a windows touch), I thought switching to something else now would be a good idea. Some said that KDE 3.5.9 would be the last 3.x release, and in addition, v4 is clearly blocking the 3.x path, so, KDE as I know it is seemingly dead.
BTW: those who point out twm/blackbox etc as "Light" alternatives are clearly wrong. AmigaOS 1.3 had more features than those and ran on a 7mhz computer. Why nobody has made a truly light weight desktop which is truly *fast* is beyond me. Perhaps programmers have become sloppy and ignorant to effective use of resources. In other words, you don't need megabytes of ram to show icons in a window =)
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Re: Bad promotion
by Borker on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @14:35
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Wow, with your grammar and spelling it sounds like you'd be a much better candidate for the promotion job!
Great to read such a well thought out, clearly articulated post as yours. Please, I'm there will be 'negative Nellies' out there that will call you 'an over opinionated tool who writes at a 3rd grade level and contributes nothing to the planet but greenhouse gas' and other such unsubstantiated, poorly thought out personal attacks with no visible basis in reality, but you keep up the good work! As I'm sure you must be aware, you're a great asset to the community and if more people spent time writing posts like yours the world would obviously be a much better place and certainly KDE would be a better project. Kudos.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Jos And on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @15:15
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Screw my grammar.. im no native english speaker and if you understood what was written then it good enough. Remenber that most of us here are not native speakers.
And.. KDE4 really sucks and we make a world a better place.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Borker on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @15:21
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nice come back... I love the way you went into a detailed list of what 'really sucks' in KDE4 and your proposals for making it better. It certainly went a long way towards repairing the mistaken idea people may have come to that you are in fact a pointless, complaining troll.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Jos And on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @15:52
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Well, i find you to be a pointless complaining moron .. but i can live with it. Why should i make proposals? for years proposals have been ignored and you can just search for Seigos comments to see what he thinks about proposals - its a complete waste of time. Something you would know if you had been here for more than two months.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Morty on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @01:59
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"you can just search for Seigos comments to see what he thinks about proposals - its a complete waste of time"
True, he has repeatedly asked for constructive criticism and well reasoned proposals. Not useless and pointless whining and complaining, or repeating of the same already answered "issues". Since you obviously are incapable of that, in your case it's a complete wast of time.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Imruska on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @04:02
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"True, he has repeatedly asked for constructive criticism and well reasoned proposals."
Well, when KDE 3.5 started, I realised that KsCD was broken, it simply stopped randomly at the middle of a track, and started from Track 1. This bug (121405)was reported by other people using various distributions.
7 months after this bug had been reported I added a sarcastic (desperate) comment for the maintainer to tell us at least if this bug will ever (within KDE3) be fixed or we should switch to GNOME to listen to audio CDs. There was no answer unless you count it as an answer the fact that KsCD was moved from kdemultimedia3-CD to kdemultimedia-extra.
Well, guess who the maintainer of KsCD was at that time (2006)? Yes, Aaron J. Seigo.
The problem with this is only that Kaffeine and Amarok with the Xine engine cannot play back audio CDs without adding gaps between the tracks. So KDE, while having several programs to play back audio CDs does not have a single one which does it properly.
I am not using Kontact, but can understand the exasperation of KDE users who see that certain programs want to do everything without mastering the basics. (This exasperation started this thread off.)
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Re: Bad promotion
by Jos And on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @15:15
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Screw my grammar.. im no native english speaker and if you understood what was written then it is good enough. Remenber that most of us here are not native speakers.
And.. KDE4 really sucks and we make a world a better place.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Borker on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @15:24
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Just like re-reading a great book or watching a great film for the second time, I think reading your post a second time has only increased my appreciation of it's timeless brilliance.
'KDE4 really sucks and we make a world a better place' just magic!
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Re: Bad promotion
by Jos And on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @15:34
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Hehe.. glad to assist you. Happy to know that you have nothing better to do than enjoying my posts - it realyy helps me appreciate your comments.
KDE 4.0.x sucks ;-)
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Re: Bad promotion
by Fool on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @16:15
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How about explaining to us why kde4.1 will suck, or how kde 4.0.x sucks for you?
Just imagine if we all communicated by shouting opinions at each other without providing context or explaining anything. Comments like this are a waste of space.Most of this thread has been you trolling and everyone else trying to get a decent argument out of you or just making fun of you.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Jos And on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @15:34
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Hehe.. glad to assist you. Happy to know that you have nothing better to do than enjoying my posts - it really helps me appreciate your comments.
KDE 4.0.x sucks ;-)
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Re: Bad promotion
by assist on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @10:39
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Just like re-reading a great book or watching a great film for the second time, I think reading your post a second time has only increased my appreciation of it's timeless brilliance.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Tom on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @14:54
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A lot of work has been done on Korganizer interface, you're not very respectful for the developers. Have a look at the nice agenda view; they also introduced a new month view which looks promising usability-wise.
Anyway, you when you implement a new software, you have to promote it. People are free to use it or not. If it doesn't suit their purpose/expectation, they can wait for the next version. If there was no "promoting" there won't be bug reports, there won't be bugfixes and the "crap" would stay crap.
Such a post is very disrespectful for developers. You might be a 10-years KDE user but it is not because you are not satisfied for one release that you can be so brutal ...
Blah.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Jos And on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @15:30
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There is not much to promote in KDE4 so its pretty shameless to advocate its use - the quality is really bad. It just feels like a clumsy version of Vista - and Vista is already clumsy. KDE4 is pretty much hyped the same way Koffice has been hyped, when only Kword is usable - its ridiculous and turns people away from KDE when reality hits them.
I'll wait for 4.1 before i try Korganiser. I know i had a hard time using it in 3.5.x before, and it was so unlogic to use that i gave up on it long ago.
Don worry about developers find posts disrespectful - its only a opinion from a end user and its clear that we really dont count. Its just sad that every time someone is critical then its judged as a troll post.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Jonas on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @17:14
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It wouldn't be judged as a troll post if the criticism would actually be, you know, constructive. Just saying that something sucks or is clumsy or unusable doesn't help anyone - and certainly not the developers.
Is the current version of KDE4 as feature-filled and solid as the KDE3.5.x series? Certainly not, but none that I know of claims that it is either. It's been made VERY, in my opinion, clear that 4.0.x is for early adopters, developers, and/or people not afraid of getting their hands dirty every now and then while others (that is: end users) should wait at least until 4.1.
While I'm no developer by any stretch of the imagination, KDE 4 IS usable if you don't mind some glitches here and there not to mention using KDE 3.x apps to fill the gaps (for example, Kontact, Amarok, K3B, Digikam, Koffice - the programs I personally look forward the most to come out of alpha/beta). And yes, I use KDE 4.0.2. as my main desktop and for the most part it works just fine. Not as well as KDE 3.5.8, mind, but at this point in time I didn't expect it to.
And honestly, if you think Kontact is unlogical you can't have used many PIM suites. It's no more unlogical than say Evolution or Outlook. It may not suit your needs, but that's another issue entirely.
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Re: Bad promotion
by Oscar on Friday 28/Mar/2008, @14:55
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Sure.
Not a complete list but some of the issues that I feel needs to be fixed.
No, I can't code well enough and I don't have time to learn but I do give some money to KDE e.v. every now and then in the hopes that the Kontact suite will benefit.
I think Kontact is the best there is, but there are issues to be solved. A few quite critical.
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41514
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=95064
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=83414
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=115426
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=150790
And a few of mine...
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151977
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151975
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151976
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151978
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=151979
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Re: Bad promotion
by Maarte on Saturday 29/Mar/2008, @03:07
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I love KDE and Kontact especially, but the following bug has meant that for people like me who have accessibility issues / visual impairment, Kontact is sadly painful to view.
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=159106
Please, please can this be looked at too?
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Re: Bad promotion
by Kolla on Sunday 30/Mar/2008, @17:23
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My main issue with "korganizer" is that the LDAP-backend for Kaddressbook is awfully slow, bordering to completely, utterly useless. I guess that if I was mad enough to use KMail, that would put this little annoyance way down in the priority list, but alas, I not that mad :)
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