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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Sebastian Kuegler on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @10:31
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AFAIK, there are also some new features, but as they didn't make it into the changelog, they didn't make it into the announcement. That's why I wrote "not complete" about it. Trying to get everybody to fill the changelog is quite a challenge. *hint*
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Anon on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @10:45
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As in my experience the openSUSE 4.0.x releases had at least as much bugs as the supposedely "unstable" 4.1pre Packages, I happily switched to the more feature-rich 4.1 and never looked back to 4.0.x. If you get bugs as well with 4.0 as 4.1, you might as well learn to cope with 4.1's bugs ;).
While this is basically a good sign for the upcoming KDE4.1, it nevertheless leaves one with a dull taste concerning the release policy which lead to 4.0. Here something went wrong IMHO.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by WPosche on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @11:01
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Well, actually my experience has been quite different. While the 4.0.x releases are stable I've already had lots of problems with the 4.1 svn version - both using opensuse 10.3.
Plasma crashing on every startup, lots of apps not even loading - I'm glad I haven't seen that in the 4.0.x versions. :) Anyway, I agree that there are some nifty features waiting for us in current svn. Looking forward to it!
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by mimoune djouallah on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @11:17
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"Well, actually my experience has been quite different. While the 4.0.x releases are stable I've already had lots of problems with the 4.1 svn version - both using opensuse 10.3"
perhaps you are mixing the two repositories stable and unstable, remove all kde 4.0.x and delete .kde4 , and just install the last kde 4.0.67, you will be surprised.
friendly
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by WPosche on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @11:53
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I used to have the stable packages on that machine, then I upgraded to the unstable packages and had these problems. Just deleted .kde4 and checked that there were no more old packages installed. Still some apps don't work (games, amarok). Still nice to see the default settings again in KDE4.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Emil Sedgh on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @12:18
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Hi
Probably there were something wrong from your side because games were/are in a very nice shape.they were never broken.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Aaron Seigo on Thursday 03/Apr/2008, @08:41
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> Plasma crashing on every startup,
with BIC changes to libplasma happening for 4.1, you have to be really careful to keep your plugins in step with libplasma. that's been the only known source of start up crashes to date. so this is an installation issue, not something in our code.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by mimoune djouallah on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @11:08
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Absolutely, please can you explain to me, why a distribution can't ship kde 4.1 alpha if it is quite stable, because right now (imho) kde trunk is more stable and has more feature (of course) then branch.
Strange days, the unstable branch is more stable then the stable branch.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Iuri Fiedoruk on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @12:08
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>Strange days, the unstable branch is more stable then the stable branch.
This one made my day, and the funny part is that it's probably true :D
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Grósz Dániel on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @13:02
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openSUSE does. You can choose between stable and development version of KDE4.
However, I had a problem with the dev version: it needs Qt 4.4 beta and LyX didn't work with that.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Anonymous on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @14:55
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I guess you don't know what "Alpha" state means in software development.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Anon on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @11:41
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I agree. It feels like 4.0.x is a waste of time both for developer and users.
They should keep it as close as possible to KDE 4.1, so stuff get tested and we get a quality release in summer. There is no point in developers wasting time to maintain 4.0.x and backport stuff to it. Nobody uses 4.0 in a production environment and it's not a real stable release. As you say, if users can cope with 4.0, they'll cope with 4.1 alpha and beta.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Anon2 on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @12:18
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The first time I read your post, it seemed kinda harsh.
But the more I think about it, the more truth I see: Nobody wanting to use a stable desktop will use KDE 4.0.x - in this case KDE 3.5.9 is the way to go. KDE 4.0.x is a beta version (there's no flaming here, as that's more or less the official line, can be read in various blogs of developpers).
So basically, we're talking about a work-in-progress, and maintaining a KDE 4.0.x besides developping KDE4 seems as sensible as maintaining an early beta version of a program.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Anon2 on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @12:29
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Oops, something lost here:
Maintaining KDE 4.0.x besides developping KDE 4.1 seems as sensible as maintaining an early beta version parallel to a newer beta version.
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How many ?
by Bobby on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @12:43
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Anons do we have? We have Anon (original afaik) then we have anon and now Anon2. What's next? Anon reloaded?
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by NabLa on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @15:15
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Well, your mileage may vary... I've been using KDE4 nonstop since 4.0.1 (4.0.0 was too unstable for me). Apart from the obvious defects, 4.0.2 is quite stable. My biggest annoyances are krunner (after executing successfully a command it complains it couldn't do it) and kwin (way too slow in composite mode).
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by NabLa on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @15:19
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I see on 4.0.3's changelog that some effort has been made to optimise kwin on nvidia, let's see how it goes :)
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Jonathan Thomas on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @16:23
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Seems smoother here on my GeForce 4 MX 440. (It wasn't half bad before either)
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by MarcG on Thursday 03/Apr/2008, @01:49
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Not smooth at all on my Geforce 6600GT. Drives me nuts, have to use compiz.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by reihal on Thursday 03/Apr/2008, @09:11
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Since the MX 440 is much older, slower and have less memory,
it's another driver you have to use.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by NabLa on Thursday 03/Apr/2008, @09:45
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Still slow for me, no improvement :? I have a similar card with latest nvidia drivers...
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NVIDIA fixes?
by Sebastian on Thursday 03/Apr/2008, @04:11
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I read your post and decided to install 4.0.3
Surprising result when measuring frame rate on 8400GT using glxgears:
kde 4.0.2: 8300 frames in 5.0 seconds
kde 4.0.3: 4617 frames in 5.0 seconds
half the performance.
I have to file a bug report on that...
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Re: NVIDIA fixes?
by Sebastian on Thursday 03/Apr/2008, @08:50
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No, even less. The first reduction appeared after installing 4.0.3, killing kwin4.0.2 and starting kwin 4.0.3.
After restarting the session I am at 1500 frames per 5.0 seconds...
wow! this is as fast as my old ATI wothout 3d support! May somebody explain this? Shall I see this as a sign (I will exeggerate) that kwin is making the gpu busy or is it a good sign (in terms that kwin now uses the gpu at all)?
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Aaron Seigo on Thursday 03/Apr/2008, @08:42
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> krunner (after executing successfully a command it complains it couldn't do it)
for the record, this bug is not in krunner but elsewhere =)
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Leo S on Friday 04/Apr/2008, @11:12
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The debian KDE packagers agree with you. They are skipping 4.0.X>2 entirely and packaging KDE trunk builds until 4.1 is released.
http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-chinese-gb@lists.debian.org/msg16211.html
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debian is snobing kde 4.0.x
by mimoune djouallah on Friday 04/Apr/2008, @11:30
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i think (imho) as a user, it is the right decision, i am really concerned about the reaction of users after using kde 4.0.x specially plasma (btw the most important piece in kde), let's wait and see their reaction to fedora 9, ubuntu 8.04-kde4 and in less extend opensuse 11 ( i really hope they postponed their release date and ship kde 4.1 bata )
it is always hard to forget the first impression ;)
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Iuri Fiedoruk on Sunday 06/Apr/2008, @08:01
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I tought the contrary.
But as most bugfixes are NOT being ported to 4.0 series, and plasma just crashes everyday for me (on logout and sometimes on login), I just want 4.1 stable and with more features. Having to maintain 4.0 series does not help to improve 4.1, so please, kde tem, do not work on 4.0.4-beta, we want 4.1-stable!
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Kevin Kofler on Sunday 06/Apr/2008, @08:21
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> please, kde tem, do not work on 4.0.4-beta
I disagree, please do backport bugfixes! I really don't want to have to backport dozens of bugfixes from 4.1 all alone for Fedora 9's KDE 4.0.4 update which is going to come a few days after the release. Please keep users of the stable branch in mind and backport bugfixes to the stable branch whenever possible. With that logic, i.e. if all the bugfixes go to the unstable trunk only, we'll never have a stable release.
This:
> most bugfixes are NOT being ported to 4.0 series
if it's true (I don't have any metrics to decide either way), is the real problem and should really not happen. But dropping 4.0 entirely is not the solution, actually backporting bugfixes is!
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Emil Sedgh on Thursday 03/Apr/2008, @00:50
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and the answer is: i think developers are users too :)
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Aaron Seigo on Thursday 03/Apr/2008, @08:45
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it's a numbers thing: both the number of users as well as the number of different ways the system is used. developers involved with a system tend to use the software in repeated, predictable patterns. introduce new users (even if they are also developers, but of some other software) and issues start to arise pretty naturally / obviously.
that said, i'm happy to see the 4.0.x releases rolling. it's a good practice and the improvements are welcome by many.
counterballancing that, yes, i'm very much of the "concentrate on 4.1 as much as possible (but no more)" opinion as well.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by ad on Thursday 03/Apr/2008, @12:56
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That is because 4.0 is in essence a Beta release. And as a Beta release it is, it doesn't make that much sense for it to have bugfix releases, the best way to make it stable is to continue development towards a Release Candidate state, which is being done in the 4.1 branch.
If you look at Plasma in 4.0 for, which is central to the end user experience, it is far from done, that's why it is allowed to introduce new features in supposedly bugfix releases. Libplasma won't even remain binary compatible until 4.1. All this are characteristics of Beta releases.
Of course 4.1 is more prone to break than 4.0 but, since so many improvements have been done over that old Beta state, it's natural that overall it is better quality.
I know this is beating a dead horse. In any case it is the natural answer for these kind of comments. From the moment that you keep in mind that 4.0 is Beta, lots of strange things suddenly make sense.
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Re: only bug fixes for plasma ?
by Jonathan Thomas on Wednesday 02/Apr/2008, @11:20
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I noticed that now there is a divider line on the right click menus between the containment configuration and applet configuration buttons.
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