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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by ad on Tuesday 08/Apr/2008, @08:22
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Yeah let's boycott the company responsible for hiring the highest number of KDE devels.
A company that provides one of the best KDE desktops out there, with regular updates, maintaining three branches as we speak 3.5, 4.0 and 4.1.
A company that took an already excellent but somewhat closed distribution (SuSE Pro), and made it free and its development open to the community.
That is really smart.
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by she on Wednesday 09/Apr/2008, @00:33
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'A company that took an already excellent but somewhat closed distribution (SuSE Pro), and made it free and its development open to the community.'
I am not in agreement with the original poster at all, albeit for other reasons than you.
But if you are so quickly to name this company's advantage, how about the strategic alliance with Microsoft and the patent clause deal? Do you defend that as well?
By the way, I also think it is wrong to give any company too much power - we see it with the Linux kernel. Those that hire devs get it much easier to see changes in the kernel. Understandable - but unfair to "normal" users just as well.
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by ad on Wednesday 09/Apr/2008, @07:30
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No I don't defend that. I wish they hadn't done it.
And I agree. But it's not the case, there are many other big players in the field, plus tons of small ones, plus a huge community.
I think we'll be just fine ;)
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by Grósz Dániel on Wednesday 09/Apr/2008, @13:10
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I still haven't read any true argument to who (except Red Het) and why is the deal bad.
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by DA on Thursday 10/Apr/2008, @05:56
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> By the way, I also think it is wrong to give any company too much power - we
> see it with the Linux kernel. Those that hire devs get it much easier to see
> changes in the kernel. Understandable - but unfair to "normal" users just as
> well.
That is just totally untrue. Read the report in the link below specially the section about "Who is Sponsoring the Work"
https://www.linux-foundation.org/publications/linuxkerneldevelopment.php
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by Q on Wednesday 09/Apr/2008, @09:24
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If you wish to reward a convicted monopoly (Microsoft) fine, I do not.
If Microsoft is so pro-Linux, why can't I find a free software repository for Linux on their site like Google has? When I search for Linux on Microsoft's site, why are there not mounds of pro-Novell pro-Linux articles and features? They (Microsoft) have made claims of interoperability but they have done nothing to bring a working non-trojaned non-crippled DirectX to Linux or provide Linux sales or downloads of ports for their commecial software.
In 2000 Corel had some partnership with Microsoft and we heard many of the same claims we hear now with Novell and Microsoft and Linux lost out then as it will now. Go to Corel's website and search for Linux, have fun! No Corel Linux (it became Xandros after the pact and Xandros signed some patent agreement too so the circle is complete there), no tons of programs like Word Perfect for Linux. It appears to all have been abandoned. So we see where Linux and Microsofts pacts go based on the Corel and other such agreements.
Linux has lasted as long as it has because it wasn't in control of one or two companies to be bought out, but through agreements with Microsoft, give it time and all of the castles will fall and the community scuttled. Just give it time. To think otherwise is to ignore the history of Microsoft and its dealings with other companies and operating systems.
The camel nose is well under the tent. The clock is ticking, the patent wagons are being gathered to circle, we'll see how long the beast remains quiet. In the land of nothing for free, you can expect Microsoft to win any patent battle against Linux. Notice how IBM has been pushed out of the government recently even after a LOC deal with Microsoft.
Microsoft's power is on the rise, we are yet to see the full monopoly in action, these are dark times as you buy your EEE (embrace extend extinguish) Xandros PCs (how much of the money for the purchase goes back to Microsoft) and whatever else Microsoft-approved-Linux.
The shills are in full force, while Linux lands on desktops it's often under Microsoft-approved-Linux like Linspire and Xandros, Novell and perhaps others.
You can either bury your head in the sand and spew Simpsons quotes to laugh and remove yourself from the facts or you can pay attention and participate somehow to make a difference.
Read the history of Microsoft's actions, most of you would either suck it up like you do with your Xboxes and Halo anyway were Linux to all fall under the Microsoft banner, with the few running to BSD until that became popular and squashed too.
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by David Johnson on Wednesday 09/Apr/2008, @10:52
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"Microsoft's power is on the rise, we are yet to see the full monopoly in action..."
Hah hah! Microsoft is definitely on the decline. They lost their browser monopoly. They lost the cheap server monopoly. Mac OSX and Linux are eroding Windows' desktop market share. The received wisdom is that it is impossible to compete with a monopoly, yet it was during the height of the Microsoft monopoly that the Open Source movement flowered, that Apple made a complete turnaround in fortune.
Patents are indeed a serious problem, and it needs to be addressed. But it needs to be addressed directly, without using Microsoft as a proxy scapegoat. Get rid of software patents and Microsoft ceases to be a threat. Get rid of Microsoft and the patent threat remains as strong as ever.
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by Grósz Dániel on Wednesday 09/Apr/2008, @13:36
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"If Microsoft is so pro-Linux"
Who said that Microsoft is pro-Linux? Novell and Microsoft are still concurrents, just agreed in a few areas.
"In 2000 Corel had some partnership with Microsoft and we heard many of the same claims we hear now with Novell and Microsoft and Linux lost out then as it will now."
And what's the problem with Corel not shipping Linux any more? They have the right to do so - of course it is better for us if they don't. But you want to boycott Novell right now, and not use Novell-developed Linux distros even when they ship them, so you don't need them, so what would be the problem if they stopped to develop Linux distros? Anyway, it is not likely as Novell makes much money with Linux and more and more every year.
"Linux has lasted as long as it has because it wasn't in control of one or two companies"
And it won't be just because some developers, even who have deal with MS, take part in its development. If the code is good, Linus will include it in Linux and it should be in Linux. If the code is bad, it simply won't go into the official Linux.
"while Linux lands on desktops it's often under Microsoft-approved-Linux like Linspire and Xandros, Novell and perhaps others."
Mostly Novel SLED or (K)Ubuntu, sometimes Red Hat, sometimes even Debian. (Xandros is on EeePC but the big migrations usually go to these.) And this is because these are the most usable distros with the largest supporting community in the "user-friendly" corporate desktop category.
"In the land of nothing for free, you can expect Microsoft to win any patent battle against Linux."
If Novell, Xandros, Linspire have a deal with MS, and, considering the worst case, MS sues evribody who use a Linux distro not purchased from a distributor with a deal with MS, you will be allowed to use SLED, Xandros, Linspire and nothing else. If there aren't these deals, you cannot use Linux at all. I wouldn't say that the first case is better as the good in Linux is the community but it is still not worse.
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...
by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday 08/Apr/2008, @08:32
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-1 Knobhead
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by Jst4Fun on Tuesday 08/Apr/2008, @20:50
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Novell have been a major contributer to various OSS projects including Linux and KDE. A recent report states that Novell is the second largest contributer to Linux kernel. Still I cant figure out why anyone should boycott Novel? If so then I think we may have to boycott KDE, Gnome, Linux etc since they all are using code contributed by Novell or by developers paid by Novell.
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by she on Wednesday 09/Apr/2008, @00:34
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You make it sound as if this is a unique and only advantage.
But there are two sides of a medal to it.
If we look at only one side, we will not see the bigger picture.
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by apokryphos on Friday 11/Apr/2008, @17:11
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> A site to keep bookmarked along with Groklaw to keep the truth in mind:
> http://www.boycottnovell.com/
Please take your FUD somewhere else. Read: http://opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by Fri13 on Sunday 13/Apr/2008, @00:27
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Here is other page for you, because you gave the novell fact page, this is just makes your argument complete ;-)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver/compare/default.mspx
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Re: The Jackal In The Forest
by Grósz Dániel on Sunday 13/Apr/2008, @05:48
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The Novell FAQ obviously cannot be regarded as unbiased (btw what apokryphos linked is the openSUSE FAQ based on the Novell FAQ) but you can only say it is not an acceptable argument if you can prove that it is not true. So which point of that FAQ is false?
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