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Re: NX
by John Tapsell on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @01:53
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> Since KDE already has server-related projects (Kolab etc.), how about NX-focused server that is integrated with KDE?
Sounds good! When will you be finished? :-)
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Re: NX
by Janne on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @02:38
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Why is it that whenever someone makes a suggestion, the answer is something like "Sounds great, when can you start coding?". Does it ever occur to any of you that not everyone is a coder?
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Re: NX
by Book of Konqui on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @03:47
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"Yea, they probably say so becoz they want to do what interests them, and not what some random tells them to do"
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Re: NX
by Janne on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @04:18
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I'm not telling anyone to "implement this! NOW!". I'm throwing a suggestion out there. If someone picks it up, great! if not, well, too bad. I think something like this would be very useful and cool. But I can't write it, since I'm not a coder.
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Re: NX
by anon on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @07:13
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and if you complain about some software they'll wiggle in their chair with pride after they type "then return it" or "get your money back". making their comment will secure their position in the linux l33t or some bull shit like that! Oh yes, for years after people will say "anonymous fanboy was so hard core linux" and visions in this coders head of girls noticing him for his linux wit, or perhaps the amount of ram in his system.. blah blah blah...
i think those who jump on others even in the name of linux are just as bad
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Re: NX
by Koder on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @05:52
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It is because all the active coders have a lot of ideas themselves, most of which they will not even be able do anytime in their life.
So it occurs pretty lame to just throw in "See my great idea, am I cool, please do it for me.". Ideas are easy to produce, they are created all the time. If we all shouted out our new ideas anytime there would be a hell of a noise.
Code is the hard work. It takes time. And sweat.
Still everyone can learn to code, the current coders did, you can, too. To do so won't be lame, really ;)
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Re: NX
by Martin Fitzpatrick on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @09:29
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"Ideas are easy to produce, they are created all the time."
Yes, but good ideas are rare and coders don't have a monopoly on producing them.
Assuming that developers are able to tell a good idea from a bad one, the greater the number of good ideas available (from users and developers alike) the more likely that time will be spent on them. I've wasted time developing random crap because I can't come up with anything better, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
There is a huge difference between suggesting and demanding. Not everyone can code or wants to. Get over it. If you want "better ideas" encourage people with ideas to flesh them out, deliver specs and use cases. That's far more productive than saying "learn to code" to someone who has no experience in doing so: Think how long it has taken you to learn to code (including school, college, university, and self educating). If you had to start coding now, could you retro-fit that around your 9-5 day day job, family and social commitments? I doubt it: I couldn't. Not everyone has that much free time.
For what it's worth I would also like to see what the OP proposed become a reality. But, don't worry, I won't mention it again ;)
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Re: NX
by Koder on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @10:05
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[If you want "better ideas" encourage people with ideas to flesh them out]
Exactly. Put emphasize on the "want". If one wants, sure. But there are too many just rushing into this virtual room and shouting without being asked to "Look, you must do it, it is so clever." This "must" is what hurts. It collides with the liberty feeling.
[Not everyone has that much free time.]
Then he should take his money and pay someone to scratch his itch. That simple. Or learn to pray. But not go out and act like nagging people to do something for him for free.
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Re: NX
by janne on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @13:58
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what on earth is this discussion about? I see comments about how "making demands is not cool" when in fact I explicitly said that I'm NOT demanding anything. And it seems to me that we are approaching a point where coding-skills are required even if you just suggest something or float an idea that might be useful. and what is this about "nagging"? Was my comment "nagging"?
Well, I apologize. I'll try not to make any feature-suggestions, ideas for improvement or anything of the sort in the future. I guess those are reserved to coders and coders alone. Please, just disregard my comment, it was just a stream of thought from a lowly user. I know better now, and I'll just stfu.
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Re: NX
by Koder on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @14:53
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Apoligize taken.
The problem is not your intention, but the way it arrives. It is like unwanted help or hints. Too many of them make someone angry. It is received as nagging, by sensible ones at least ;)
You are welcome to add your ideas to bugs.kde.org, so they won't be lost. Other than in random forum posts, where they are. Yes, that needs some work. Still it is the way for you to participate, they way you are asked for. Just "throwing in wild ideas" at the first best place without being asked for, is too easy and received as nagging, really.
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Re: NX
by ad on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @15:20
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No the problem is that many posters are morons who overreact to perfectly sensible posts like Janne's. Many of them are not even part of the project themselves but they get high on these pathetic power trips. How about letting the people directly related to these projects criticize these kind of posts if they feel like it. They are usually much more sensible.
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Re: NX
by Janne on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @21:52
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"Apoligize taken."
Um, I was being sarcastic.
"The problem is not your intention, but the way it arrives."
And what would that be? "nagging? It would be nagging if I constantly demanded that this particular feature gets implemented. How exactly can one singular comment that is few sentences long be considered "nagging"?
"You are welcome to add your ideas to bugs.kde.org"
No, I won't be doing that. I mean, I don't want to offer any "unwanted help" or "nag" to the developers... Besides, those coders have interests of their own, what does it matter what I want done, right? After all, I'm not a coder.
"Just "throwing in wild ideas" at the first best place without being asked for, is too easy and received as nagging, really."
I talked about NX, which was directly related to the subject of this article. Are you saying that comments that contains something that could be seen as a "suggestion" do not belong to dot.kde.org?
Don't like the suggestion or the way it was presented? Fine, ignore it. Just don't start nagging about it.
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Re: NX
by Koder on Friday 25/Apr/2008, @04:10
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[It would be nagging...]
Well, you are just not the only one. Try to see if from a active person's POV: There may be only one suggestion per user, but by the masses of users it makes up an enormous flood of suggestions.
[How exactly can one singular comment ... "nagging"?]
Well, you also only got one singular comment "Where is your code?" and already started to be pissed of. As you also see a masses of developers who each only one time say something like that ;)
[No, I won't do that.]
So, you are not really interested? Too sad. Pretty sensible, you are. And see, bugs.kde.org is set up exactly for this, that is where your help is really, really wanted. But obviously now your ego is in the way, oh dear.
[Fine, ignore it.]
Honey, just be a good example and ignore comments like "Where is your code?" then :P
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Re: NX
by Janne on Friday 25/Apr/2008, @06:55
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"There may be only one suggestion per user, but by the masses of users it makes up an enormous flood of suggestions."
Yes, heaven forbid when users make suggestions on how to make the software better! How dare they! they should just use the software and STFU! Or better yet: they shouldn't even use the software either, then the coders would REALLY be left in peace, right?
"Well, you also only got one singular comment "Where is your code?" and already started to be pissed of."
Because the mentality that only coders are worth something, is getting pretty old, pretty fast. If I wanted to use software where dialog with the developers is not wanted, I might as well use Windows.
It's not constructive to suggest something, and receive a reply that basically says "do it yourself". What WOULD be constructive is a discussion on the pros and cons of the idea, and further ideas how to improve it.
"So, you are not really interested?"
Yes I am. In fact, I have filed bug-reports. I have discussed things in mailinglists, developer-blogs and in various forums. But I wont be doing that anymore, since you made me see the light. Feedback, suggestions, wishes and the like not wanted. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
"Honey, just be a good example and ignore comments like "Where is your code?" then :P"
In the end, suggestions lilke that are not constructive. It just reinforces the "by coders, for coders"-mentality. Fact of the matter is that most people are not coders. And still, those people might have valuable feedback to provide. But here you are basically saying that if they can't code, their feedback is worthless.
Like I said: thanks for helping me see the light. I know now that feedback and suggestions are not wanted.
Have fun coding.
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Re: NX
by Koder on Friday 25/Apr/2008, @07:39
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"... And see, bugs.kde.org is set up exactly for this, that is where your help is really, really wanted."
[I know now that feedback and suggestions are not wanted.]
I see. What stops you from learning to write code is that you have already problems to read... :) At least if it doesn't fit your own view.
But you have a good excuse now to stop contributing even your ideas, those (all of them?) lame developers are just too arrogant to listen to you. I gratulate. You are free.
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Re: NX
by Martin Fitzpatrick on Friday 25/Apr/2008, @11:44
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"Koder":You're an idiot.
Janne: For what it's worth, I am a developer (not of KDE but other things) and I value contributions like yours. AKA polite and interesting. Keep contributing, filing bugs and having discussions: if only to drown out the sound coming from this guy. Have fun.
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Re: NX
by Koder on Friday 25/Apr/2008, @14:12
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Oh, thanks, other than you obviously. Hope you don't mind that I still value your elaborated argumentation techniques.
Please now continue your fruitful discussions about nx dreams, sorry that I disrupted.
Have fun. But learn to code.
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Re: NX
by Janne on Monday 28/Apr/2008, @01:15
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Koder: could you please quote the part in dot.kde.org that says "feedback and suggestions are not wanted here"? Also, could you please quote the part in kde.org that says "feedback and suggestions are only wanted in bugs-kde.org, and nowhere else"? I'm waiting.... If you can't find text that says that, then what exactly makes you think that dot is not kosher as far as suggestions and feedback is concerned?
I have talked about KDE in my blog, what are you going to do about it? Punch me in the face? I have also talked about KDE in developer-blogs? What are you going to do about that? Start whining that I should only talk about kDE in bugs.kde.org?
Also, are you part of the KDE-project? If you are not, then what makes you think that you can talk for KDE? Only person you can talk for, is yourself.
"At least if it doesn't fit your own view."
Look who's talking. You start whining if someone does something that does not fit your narrow world-view on things.
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Re: NX
by illogic-al on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @11:54
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But not everyone learns how to code well. I would know, I suck.
I get by but mostly only because of my good looks and rapier wit.
The last thing we need is an influx of crappy coders into the project.
Oh wait, gSOCers. nm.
Remember now kiddies, don't feed the troll.
Especially if he only assymptotically approaches a valid point...
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Re: NX
by cm on Thursday 24/Apr/2008, @06:49
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I've spun this thought a bit further:
http://ich.war-es-wirklich.net/cms/KDE-home-system-pipe-dream
If think this is as much a question of packaging and creating an installer as it is of writing KDE-specific code. I wonder if there is a distro that helps with these things (easy setup of more than one machine).
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