Re: wow

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Re: wow
by anon on Tuesday 29/Apr/2008, @23:24

I'm honestly getting bored of people using alpha and beta software and complaining when things aren't working, that is the point of alpha's and beta's. KDE 4 is still a beta. Released to get people to port to it. It is not something that anyone should use if they want a stable release. It's release was solely to get people porting applications to it and for people to test and find bugs.

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Re: wow
by JRT on Wednesday 30/Apr/2008, @09:12

I would not complain at all if 4.0.0 had been released as either Beta or the unstable branch (like other OSS).

I also see no problem releasing 4.1 Alpha that is less stable than 4.0 Beta -- isn't that what you would expect. It is logical to release the new Plasma API for testing.

I think that the point that people are trying to make is that Plasma development doesn't *seem* to be progressing very well. This may only be how it looks rather than the actual progress made on the internals. But, when basic things still don't work, people will wonder.

I am starting to wonder if KDE is making the Vista mistake. The DeskTop is being radically changed. The question is whether users actually want this or if they would be happier with Kicker and KDesktop ported to KDE4. Since Plasma isn't going to be ready for 4.1.0, perhaps we should still consider doing this. The problem is that there are issues with Kicker and KDesktop that would need to be fixed.

IAC, I think that there are users that would be much happier if the KDE 3 DeskTop GUI was ported to KDE 4.

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Re: wow
by Anon on Wednesday 30/Apr/2008, @09:21

Frankly, Plasma is becoming sufficiently powerful, flexible and easy to write for that someone would probably be able to re-implement Kicker and KDesktop using libplasma relatively easily. Heck, once the scripting API is a bit more stabilised, they'll probably be able to re-implement it Python/ Ruby, QtScript if they want, and you'll be able to install it using GetHotNewStuff!

The default configuration of your Plasma desktop is going to become more and more of a non-issue as it matures (except for first impressions, that is :))

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Re: wow
by JRT on Wednesday 30/Apr/2008, @10:52

>Frankly, Plasma is becoming ...

You seem to miss the point. If the existing KDE 3 DeskTop had been ported, it would be up and running NOW, not 6 months to a year from now.

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Re: wow
by Stefan Majewsky on Wednesday 30/Apr/2008, @12:13

Yes, it would be running _now_, but Plasma is being developed to run _now_ and _in the future_. Also, Plasma works great for me and my fellows, for example on openSUSE 11.0 Beta 1. I suspect the problems people are experiencing are due to lack of integration (the distributors need to step in here, just as the openSUSE people do) or simply personal incompetence.

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Re: wow
by Leo S on Wednesday 30/Apr/2008, @12:48

>> If the existing KDE 3 DeskTop had been ported, it would be up and running NOW, not 6 months to a year from now.

And plasma would be developed by the magical development fairies? Yes, there could have been kicker/kdesktop in KDE4. It would have taken a boatload of time, which means that plasma would have been delayed by about a year. So you would have kicker/kdesktop for at least another year (and it would be buggier than the KDE3 version because of the port), and then you wouldn't have a replacement for a long time. Sounds like a fantastic idea.

From your posts, it seems like you like to do everything the "proper" way. Rigorous design up front, then seamless migration paths, and stable the first time software. Well all that stuff is fine if you have unlimited resources. Fortunately most kde devs realize that time is limited, resources are limited, and the motivation of devs is limited, so all those things need to be balanced against the development effort. I've seen endless projects fail because they get stuck in endless planning, instead of getting something done.

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Re: wow
by fred on Wednesday 30/Apr/2008, @09:27

> I would not complain at all if 4.0.0 had been released as either Beta or the unstable branch (like other OSS).

I recalled when GNOME released their 2.0, all people cursing GNOME devs for that release (did you remember, they did huge change to GTK and GNOME?), but now it is already very mature so that they think no big architectural changes should be introduced in the next few years.

And also 4.0 is not merely for desktop users, we need to attract application developers to start utilizing the new KDE library.

> I am starting to wonder if KDE is making the Vista mistake. The DeskTop is being radically changed. The question is whether users actually want this or if they would be happier with Kicker and KDesktop ported to KDE4. Since Plasma isn't going to be ready for 4.1.0, perhaps we should still consider doing this. The problem is that there are issues with Kicker and KDesktop that would need to be fixed.

Uhmm... that's what people said when XP was released, MS did mistake by releasing XP at that point. And also when OS X 10.0 was first released.

> IAC, I think that there are users that would be much happier if the KDE 3 DeskTop GUI was ported to KDE 4.

Yeah, but they'll start bitching again when they see other cool desktops: "Hey, other desktops can do this XYZ cool stuffs, why can't KDE do this? So we will never be able to satisfy all users.

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Re: wow
by anon on Wednesday 30/Apr/2008, @15:30

JRT, you miss the point completely, you say the Plasma isn't progressing well. It is, it's in development stage just like KDE 4 is. If you want a stable environment use 3.5, which has been told each time people come in here complaining because they do not understand that 4 is not stable and is a work in progress.

Port a very old GUI to KDE 4, yeah that would be unwise, as people want something that is continually changing and getting better. So please shut up, or start working on KDE 4 yourself, since you obviously think it is not up to your standards of work being done.

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