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teamwork!
by sebas on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @15:20
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It's actually not a hundred percent accurate to have only my name up there, since it really was teamwork. Jeff, Thiago, Jos, Wade and Aaron have all helped a lot with patiently explaining all those things.
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life is a mistake ;)
by R. J. on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @15:20
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Releasing KDE 4 was a mistake. Releasing Vista was a mistake. Iphone was a mistake. The world is flat. On and on. No matter what you do there will always be people who moan and bitch, it is their nature.
Some people don't like KDE 4 and have stuck with 3.5, some have moved to gnome. Some didn't like gnome when compared to kde 4 and moved to it. Personally, I think KDE 4 is revolutionary. Change takes time to adapt.
The problem is also, sometimes, well, I think more than often, a lot of the negativity about KDE 4 is not from KDE 4 users, but comes from users of other desktops. Really, sometimes you need to wear gumboots when walking through the linux community because it is so fractured. I'm tired of hearing people come into other forums and put down distro's so they can say their distro is better.
In the article, number 9, the kde team does not listen to their users, wow. I've had problems with KDE 4 when it was in alpha, and I am more than impressed with the answers Aaron gave, and constantly gives, even when people ignore what he is saying and keep asking. And impressed with other KDE developers who constantly answer questions. Thanks guys.
Ok, now for one my complaint about KDE 4. Where to from here, it seems so great, I can't even begin to imagine what a KDE 5 would look like
So in closing, Aaron, and everyone else who is responsible for this awfully amazing release, thank you.
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haha
by KDE User on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @15:37
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-- I love the icon/forum topic.
Something definitely went wrong with KDE4, whether it is a PR, management or code issue or a combination of these.
Sad to see these articles are necessary.
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kde4score and seven years of KDE hyphyness
by andreas nicholas on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @16:07
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saying KDE4 is a mistake is like calling calling firefox 3 a mistake or even at a more rudimentary level calling "new years" a mistake...
I don't know how people could be so stupid, so daft and ignorant and yet still be able to use linux (I guess it means the ubuntu plan is working!)
KDE is glossy, sexy and foolproof. it's as pretty as gnome only not a complete waste of time and system resources and much more utilitarian...
KDE4 (and the innovative corporate opensource apps being developed in our year of industrialized linux progression) makes linux really for the first time a completely viable operating system (unlike microsoft). capable and universal (unlike windows) -sleek and smooth like os x, universal, free, and opensource.
KDE is the reason why countries, corporations and people across the globe will switch to linux, many of them trying it for the first time, and most won't go back...
certainly kde3 always reminded me of win98 second edition crossed with functionality, but its significantly improved, so why can't we all move on?
I don't understand people who dont LOVE kde4. are they just old fashioned? I mean that doesn't make sense!
someone please explain what my kde4 is doing that others can't, because all I see is a fully functional interface with a really enjoyable desktop experience, and I'm thankful for every bit processed in front of my eyes :)
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"There is someone wrong on the Internet".
by velocifer on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @16:07
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As an observer and KDE admirer I get the impression that the KDE project culture went from hacker culture more and more into a sectarian belief in the project. Ten years ago everyone spoke openly about technology and of course you could point critics to the hic rhodos hic salta, please fix it. Criticism was always seen as a useful contribution that does not do harm. Because hackers care just about your contributions, not about your look, race, religion, etc. They want your honest opinion. No one was offended by criticism of technology. This was changed into a emo-reward social network of believing coders desperately trying to obstruct heresy. Not unlike the self-censorship in the US in terms of patriotism with respect to the Iraq war/democracy project.
What we can clearly see is that development achievements are great but it does not scale well community-wise. In the meantime users don't wait but switch to what works for them. More users, more incredemental development.
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Waiting Eagerly for KDE 4.1
by Robert on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @17:28
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I have been eagerly awaiting the release of KDE 4.1 and plan on installing it as soon as it is available for the distro I use. The only reason I've waited this long is that 4.0 has been advertised as being for developers and testers. I don't fall into either category. I'm excited about the new desktop. I know there will be a learning curve but there was a learning curve when I switched to Linux and adopted KDE as my desktop. Thanks to all of the developers and your hard work bringing out KDE in all of its versions. Thanks for keeping innovation on the desktop alive.
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NICE!
by winter on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @18:25
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Good article. It's what I would have said to any blathering whiner.
As for KDE4: dope!
In the words of Snoop Dogg:
F#ck the haters... Give what you got, and what you don't got you can keep.
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Right.. and wrong also
by protomank on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @20:26
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It seems bashing critics is the new thing those days... good! It was time developers started taking action, but I hope they do the right thing: fix the problems instead of complaining about complains ;)
I agree mostly with the article, BUT there are some myths that are actually true.
Plasma is not finished is so true that the author says it will be rgreat for 4.1 and 4.2 ... so how this is a myth and not the truth?
Now if you say that Plasma is incomplete BUT this is not actually a big problem because it will soon will be fixed, I have to agree, in 4.1 plasma is very mature, even that lacks a lot of functions we users learned to love from 3.5.
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Well, one thing that is not in these myths...
by fweng on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @22:26
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And this is why I'm still sticking with 3.5 - KDE4 is too unstable to use for daily work!
Now my PC in my office uses Mandriva 2008.1 + KDE 3.5.9, because I did not dare to change to KDE4. In my home's PC I tried to use KDE 4.0.4, and I (can) only use it for receiving mail. The KMail crashes often. Konqueror and Konsole could not change its encodings to my own encodings. I can not use alt+tab to switch between windows. When I logout KDE 4.0 KNotify crashes very often... IMHO KDE 4.0 is still "far from usable" from any aspect.
I did not dig more to find out the problems, since I did not spend much time on KDE 4.0. I reported some problems to bugs.kde.org. I hope KDE 4.1 will be more stable, so that I can change my work PC to KDE 4 soon. :)
Go, developers. I do appreciate your hard work, and I wish we can see a great desktop soon.
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great article and greater work with kde4
by draconiak on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @22:32
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i am testing 4.0.84(suse11) and its really rock´s, beauty and fast, trolls may starving when 4.1 come out.
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My take on "Myths"
by Debian User on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @00:29
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Hello,
saying "KDE4 is finished" was a Myth is sort of funny. I don't recall anybody ever say that. But obviously it's an important part of the message that needs to get across.
I personally don't question as much the decisions. I am not into Free Software, because I think it somehow avoids all the mistakes. I do think it's valueable to discuss the merit of decisions after the fact. And I think it is valuable to discuss the process too.
Replacing the core desktop components kicker/plasma before the replacement was ready, was in my eyes a mistake. And I wonder if it was a necessary one for real.
In part I base that argument on the break down of one important pillar, to me the most important one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonnet_(KDE)
This appeared to me as originated in part by the striking instability of the KDE SVN platform before 4.0.0. When I tried out KDE SVN during earlier development, I basically never managed to get a running system that was useable in some fashion. At the time, I was trying to use KOffice2 for some in house XML project, but in the end, this (and KOffice2's lack of release plan) made me turn my attention away, repeatedly to "later". This may have cooled the interest of developers, even if it shouldn't necessarily, this happens.
If I had to choose between Plasma and Sonnet, I would _any_ time take Sonnet as it would have been a clear benefit and innovation, whereas I hardly use anything but task bar and tray from Plasma. I think it will be a year still until Plasma will be a real advantage. Loosing the Sonnet developer was probably related to Plasma, probably not, can somebody tell? http://blog.jacobrideout.net/
Probably there was no such choice. But I think, the "pro-Plasma contra-old" decision was taking the project hostage to focus on Plasma, and I would say unfairly so.
So, that's why I would say and suggest KDE that "Replacements shall replace when they are ready." In my perception (only perhaps), the Plasma replacement has hindered KDE4 development more than it has helped it.
There is certainly a balance to make, and e.g. Amarok seems to benefit very nicely already, and the KDE 4.2 replacement of kdesktop (even if I don't use it, I understand how important desktop/icons are for many), will be a big adoption leader. But overall, I fail to understand why a non-ready Plasma had to be part of 4.0.0 at all.
I tend to dispute that the port of kicker/kdesktop was not actively discouraged, because I remember it differently. I do agree though, that if nobody (developer) ever wanted it, nobody ever volunteered it, no mistakes was made in creating Plasma instead. I just feel that is hard to believe.
Yours,
Kay
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Thanks to the KDE Team for the good work
by Andry on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @00:45
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I'm from MADAGASCAR (an Island in the Indian Ocean), a French speaking country, so apologize for my poor English. This my first post ever on a KDE forum even I've used KDE for almost 8 years now. I started using it with KDE1 included in Mandrake 7. The reason for my post is for the past few weeks, I was shocked by the negativity shown by some people regarding KDE4, and I decided to post here to encourage the KDE4 team for their good work.
Still I don't understand people who are using Linux to be closed-minded like this, why didn't they understand that changes are required if you want something to move forward. Sorry to tell this, but European and American people are supposed to have received a better education than us, so if we are able to bear the changes, and understand the challenges I don't understand why they didn't.
Personally, I use Slackware (for me the best distro ever), and I always compile KDE4 form source, I never had any serious crashes.
I think KDE4 is moving to right direction.
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Always kicking
by Berend on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @00:57
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Every piece of software have people kicking into it.
I've seen it allot with Opera, every good thing about software is being avoided, and every response they see as an attack.
Why?
Of course every software has it's bugs, which could be a reason to kick(a bug rapport would of course be much better, but that would be to easy.)
Also you've got people that just love Microsoft and believe that there's nothing better and greater than it(the world is flat?)
And for a lot of years that was maybe true, but times changed, and that is very difficult to understand for some.
That an article as this one is needed to make the world round again, so be it.
It's the moment to bend the negative energy to a positive one.
Great work!!!!!!!
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The problem is "DESKTOP"
by fast_rizwaan on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @02:23
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KDE 4.1 is great, but still all the complaining is more about *The* Desktop, in KDE 3.x the desktop is a place to store/download important files, which users are so used to.
KDE 4.x doesn't have this old desktop, the folder view is annoying (and the composite makes folderview etc. applets very sluggish to work with most AGP cards, Nvidia, Intel (high end ones), etc.)
Other issues when kde 4.0 came out
1. Flash plugin was incompatible with konqueror 4.0 and caused crashes.
2. Kickoff menu was incomplete (no resize)
3. Panel (no configuration)
Please try KDE 4.0.84 or 4.0.85 (kde 4.1 based), we can see a great desktop (without the desktop ;), no crashes, good performance, and good look and feel.
k3b, amarok, ktorrent are just working great.
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"community"
by Sepp on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @02:33
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I didn't post here for a while and I probably won't ever again. The atmosphere on the Dot has become unbearable in the last months. Half of the comments are from angry trolls, repeating their same old FUD again and again.
It's refreshing to read KDE-related news on other sites, because the comments there aren't that downright negative.
Like mailinglists get flooded by spam, the dot seems to be flooded by trolls. What kind of community news site is that?
Why do developers even read the comments on the Dot? I wouldn't...
Thanks to the Devs for your hard work, please don't listen to the trolls, you do an awesome job!
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using 4.1 svn since 1 month
by Thomas on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @02:38
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and dear, this baby is wonderful.... I tell you!
I always get the impression that at least 30% of the people trolling here on the dot have only taken a glimpse at kde4.0 or simply never even tried to install it (I have to admit, the svn guide how to compile kde on techbase is confusing). Btw.... it's actually very easy to compile kde on your own (cmake is doing a great job, I think).
What I especially like about KDE is that it usually persuades with pure technical merits. Those were meanwhile growing under the surface and are now eager to crop up during the coming release cycles. From my point of view, the moment kde4 was born it became clear that it was born out of a vision. This is what gets me thrilled! There's no corporate control over KDE that is fearing huge changes, this is open-minded development. It's so refreshing to see brilliant ideas not getting stuck in some enterprise suggestion system but getting real at an incredible pace.
Being sane and rational all the time, only allowing for incremental improvements is just not how nature works (of course "incremental updates" are important too, but that's only 50% of the game)
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I love KDE 4
by Noa on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @02:56
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KDE 4.0 is by the far better than KDE 3.5.
I love technologies like Phonon , when you can develop a video player , audio player or other multimedia widget using Phonon library without thinking in the final backend xine , ffmpeg , gstreamer , ...
These kind of changes make an easy and unified way to develop KDE applications.
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Just one question
by furanku on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @03:43
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So, if everything is fine, where does all this "negativity on the Internet" come from?
Stupid users, loud minorities, obnoxius people, ...? So does KDE have a very special, hostile, loud, ... community? I'm not to sure that that's all about how this could happen.
I think, for the moment the situation is like it is. I'm a bit tired to hear the same arguments over and over, resulting in a growing frustration among devs and some users. Well, to tell the truth: I thought the situation is relaxing a bit in the moment as 4.1, eps. with the commits of the last weeks, seems to smooth a lot of former critics, including myself. Surely not all, and some *will* surely come up with "But 4.1 was supposed to be the first one for end users and I still won't switch, because of ..." So be prepared for that.
So if we have to go though all that again, IMHO a much more intersting discussion would be: How could it come to this and how could we avoid that this happens again? Aaron once mentioned a "user council", maybe an better user forum would also be needed. Hopefully that could help to boil down the aggresive critics to either discussabel issues or sometimes even to nothing in a sort of "self-hygiene" among the users. And sometimes "visions" about how things should look and work differ, and there's nothing more you can do about that than to accept that.
On the other hand I really do think that mistakes in communication from the devs and marketing have been done and that these also contributed in the first place to the first heated and now frustrated situation. Now repeating over and over again "No mistakes had been made" blocks the way to a helpful dicussion what happend.
I don't want to see someone "blamed", IMHO we also could skip that whole discussion and close that unpleasant chapter of KDE history (beside that after the release of 4.1 there *will* be again some unhappy users, see above). But if we want to discuss that we should be honest, and learn something from it.
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My view on this issue
by Kais Hassan on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @03:57
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This is the first time I write at KDE.NEWS, so I just want to quickly introduce myself. I am a PhD candidate in the medical imaging domain, before that I worked as a software developer for few years. I have been using Linux + KDE for few months, but my technical background and lots of reading helped me familiarise my self quickly.
I felt sad, ashamed and angry when I read the recent nonsense childish writing against KDE4 and its developer's. All of us use FOSS by choice, no one forced us to use it and I think after a while "some people" forget the reason they switched in the first place. Although neither KDE4 nor KDE developers need any defending, I am happy that you wrote this article. Since, it might put some sense back into the minds of those few.
As most developers, I view software applications both as an advanced user and as a software engineer. Mostly, I am very critical about the software quality, GUI, eye candy and simplicity. But, I also know that "good" software applications are hard to create. And most developers will focus on creating the basic functionality, then modifying the UI and finally focusing on the performance. Although, I started using Linux through Ubuntu, I soon realised the quality gap between Gnome and KDE. I didn't switch immediately to KDE as I was using Ubuntu and beginning to get comfy with it, and Kubuntu 7.10 at that time was poor. I took my time exploring Gnome, GTK and the development tools, and I didn't like what I saw, specially the code quality and the absence of a solid architecture, many things seemed like a hack. I value all the efforts that have been put by the Gnome developers. But I think it is the time for the Gnome developers to have a hard look at the big picture and remember the basics of FOSS. I cant believe that there are some voices in Gnome pushing towards Microsoft Mono and ignoring Qt!!! Most of the basic issues between KDE/Qt Gnome/GTK are pure political and has nothing to do with technology. I kindly ask from the still free souls at Gnome to drop Mono completely and consider using C++/Qt as a valid alternative.
There is noticeable differences between Linux distros that ship KDE. I understand that some are Gnome centred such as RH/Fedora and Ubuntu. It is their choice and we all respect it. But don't treat KDE as if it was a small applications which you can just package in half an hour and pray that everything will be OK. You need to commit enough resources to KDE, for example, compare that Ubuntu have 1 paid developer working on KDE while Pardus have 15 paid developers. I have nothing against any distro, but it is better that they either completely focus on something or just drop it.
KDE4 is evolving rapidly and this is an indication that it has a solid framework and a lot of care has been put in the infrastructure design. A few bugs or some missing features should not worry anyone. As long as you have a solid base anything is possible. I can see the some of the new concepts in KDE4 are very useful and I will not be surprised if I saw them implemented in the next releases of Windows and OSX.
For all the people behind KDE, thank you from the heart, I hope I can contribute soon to the project. Keep up the great work and don't listen to childish stupid stuff against you personally or KDE. You have to be very proud of what you accomplished.
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I've always liked KDE 4
by Skeith on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @05:55
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I admire the developers for doing something that basically amounts to short term pain for long term gain. Some very forward thinking design choices will let the KDE4 series (eventually) overshadow anything around it in all areas.
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Thanks to the kde team
by monouse on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @07:04
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i've been using kde 3 for many years now and all i can say is thanks to all the developers that spend time and money to do something for free. those who complaint should be shot on the head why because they're complainting about something they got for free and better yet it's open source which mean you don't like something just change it or fix it what's stopping you.
THANKS TO THE KDE TEAM FOR A WONDERFUL DESKTOP!!
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Good So Far
by Clifford on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @07:49
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I personally wasn't all that impressed with the 4.0 release. But I also understood that it was the libraries that were stable and not the desktop. I've personally enjoying the latest 4.1 beta. There has been loads of work going into the new desktop and I'm pleased to see it progressing like it has. I think the KDE team has done very well. Thanks for that KDE guys!
Even though I'm still exited about the 4.X series there are a few things I would like to have before switching to it.
- different wallpapers on different desktops. I absolutely love just adding a directory and not specific wallpapers, but I don't like using the pager, so different wallpapers helps me know what desktop I'm on.
- drag 'n drop of the plasmoids from the desktop to the plasma panel and vice versa.
- a complete oxygen icon set. Its gotten more and more complete as time has gone one but I still see little white boxes representing folders or programs in the menu.
- program stability. I realize that the last version I used was a beta release. However, every time I tried to create a new folder, konqueror and dolphin both crashed on me. Well documented on bugs.kde.org as well...
KDE 4.X will get there. It will just take a little time. Thanks for all the hard work so far.
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I think you forgot the number one myth
by blackbelt_jones on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @08:23
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Myth number one is that KDE 3.5 will no longer be maintained.
KDE3.5 remains alive and well, a new release is coming. The plug is not about to be pulled at any minute. No one is going to be forced to make the jump anytime soon. We've got plenty of time to get used to it, and it's got a long way to go, and KDE 3.5 is still here, the default for practically every distro. That's all I needed to hear; I don't really care about the other stuff.
This is a good step, but you really ought to put it on the website. People who want to know what's going on with KDE aren't necessarily going to go to groklaw.
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people simply love to complain
by bwayne on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @10:27
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... and that's a fact. Nothing gets more attention, makes you feel like part of the in-crowd, and is easier to do than complain. Give someone a bar of gold and I'm sure they'll whine "Gosh it's so heavy!".
And without having to look the other person in the eye, people on the internet seem to have gotten a lot cruder and more inconsiderate, too.
Add these factors to a group who are already used to getting things for free (the end-user FOSS crowd) and you've got a big baby on your hands.
Please realize I'm not describing the (silent) majority of you ought there -- those of you who appreciate all the hard work that goes into the *FREE* *EXCELLENT* tools you use everyday.
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KDE4 ROCKs!
by Ravi Vagadia on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @10:34
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Using KDE 4.1 (Neon Project) and it simply rocks!!! KDE 4 IS revolutionary, I think some people just cant accept changes...
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Good Idea
by T. J. Brumfield on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @10:50
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Let me say that I think this is a very good approach. Pam from Groklaw is awesome as per usual.
I have yet to read the article, which I'm just about to do. However the summary mentions a few myths that seem rather subjective. "I am forced to use the kickoff menu" is objective, and false. It is good to clear up true myths like that.
However the other two examples cited do seem to be a matter of opinion. I'm not sure they can be classified using objective standards.
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Great quote...
by David Johnson on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @12:46
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Here's a great quote from the groklaw feedback: "KDE 4.X will be stable and secure only if and when Patrick Volkerding had finally included it in Slackware!"
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KDE 4.1 ROCKS
by naos on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @13:56
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It is really awsome, it's shiny, glossy, sexy. It is A LOT more stable than 4.0 which I had before. 4.0 wasn't usable because of crashes and bugs, I was pissed of by it so many times, that I decided to go for 4.1 beta or GNOME. I went for 4.1 and it's much much better in terms of quality, but there are some issues yet. I hope that final version will be rock stable.
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I'd love "the way to KDE4" and then ... pause ...
by Hardy on Saturday 12/Jul/2008, @14:46
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I think, that KDE4 will become a very, very good an well integrated Desktop-Environment and i can live with KDE 4.0.5 on Fedora9 because i have myself informed about the further development of KDE4.
My interest came from the series of "the way to KDE4" and some blogs from Aaron, especially "falling in love again" or so ...
... but, at that time, when the first Distributions (Kubuntu, Fedora and now openSuse) came with their first new releases, there is a gap of anouncements on the dot. Sadly, at that time, there are many "new" Users who can take a look at KDE4 without knowing about the state ... (KDE4 is the new incarnation of KDE3, as in Windows, not knowing that it was really new).
Whenever i will be informed about KDE, i first try the kde.org-website. It's a little bit unluky, that Danny has to take an outtime to manage his move and some very interesting news like KDE 3.5.10 are not communicated over kde.org(?) ...
In my opinion, some of the blog entries would have been introduced as an article on kde.org and so it give the community the chance to follow the direction the developers are going. And as not being a blog-entry, they will be reworked and clearer and officially ... (i know being proud, solving a problem and tell it the whole world).
I don't know anything about the flame wars, but i have read the blog "no more desktop icons". First, damn, what will KDE do? Second, after reading the full text: WOW, that's wonderfull so many possibilities to work with the folderview, now i can realy work with the four workspaces(?) ...
I think, many of the whiners haven't read the following text ... and they haven't read the explications.
And because there are more news outside kde.org, than here, i've found an intersting introducion of an german website (from June the 16.):
Link: http://www.pcwelt.de/start/software_os/linux/praxis/164195/der_neue_desktop_kde_4/
<quote>
Schicker, bequemer, schneller und ressourcenschonender: der KDE-Desktop in der neuen Version 4 hat das Zeug dazu, zum Desktop des Jahrzehnts zu werden. KDE 4 ist auf jeden Fall ein Hingucker.
Es würde nicht verwundern, wenn dem kommerziellen Fensteranbieter aus Redmond die Knie schlotterten angesichts des soeben veröffentlichten KDE 4.
</quote>
<translation>
Hipper, comfortabler, faster and spare resources: the KDE-Desktop in the new version 4 has the possibility to become the desktop of the decade. KDE 4 is in all cases an eye-catcher.
It would not be astonished, if the commercial window-vendor out of Redmond is in a funk of the just now published KDE 4.
</translation>
The translation may be not correct, but i hope it will ..., and it was just an entry to a detailed view to KDE4 ... (from a windows-centric magazine).
my thanks goes to all the developer, artwork-artists, translators and all the ppl i've forgotten, i think, that KDE4 will be a great DE and i will change to the KDE-PIM when 4.2 is out and it has made the full transition (now using thunderbird, because comming from windows).
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Annoncement has been a mistake!
by Uqbar on Sunday 13/Jul/2008, @02:03
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If the Team had announced that KDE4 was on its way for testing or previewing, then every single complain whould have been meaningless.
But the team announced that "The KDE Community is thrilled to announce the immediate availability of KDE 4.0." (http://kde.org/announcements/4.0/).
Then there is something wrong.
The announcement was a mistake as KDE4 completeness, stability and usability can be questionable.
KDE4 itself cannot be a mistake as the technology preview clearly shows the quality of the design and development.
Simply, what's been released as KDE4 is just a limited technology preview, while people was what you normally call "release".
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Pioneering
by paumayr on Sunday 13/Jul/2008, @02:44
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"If we do something which is pioneering, we will get arrows in the back. But at the end of the day, a whole lot of people will have a whole lot of fun." -Randy Pausch
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KDE4 is success in progress
by coward on Sunday 13/Jul/2008, @07:31
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"Releasing KDE 4.0 was a mistake"
No, it wasn't. But it was released too early und the users did not read the fine print saying "KDE4 is Beta".
(did you notice the slogan? I am not only coward, I am a poet too ;-))
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Porting
by Kais Hassan on Sunday 13/Jul/2008, @18:54
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Software porting to a newer library is usually a nightmare. Newer libraries might remove functions or even modify the behaviour of some functions which is usually tricky to work around. The difference between Qt 3 and 4 is huge, but I am sure they had very good reasons to break compatibility. Some people don’t understand that it was both difficult and important for KDE to move to Qt4. Opera browser, a cutting edge software is still using Qt 3, this should give you an indication on the amount of work needed to port to Qt4.
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Plasma is a rampant mistake...
by Karl Günter Wünsch on Monday 14/Jul/2008, @06:46
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I simply don't get the reliance on plasmoids to fill every niche of the desktop.
Folder view here, menu there, clock there. The problem with that is: There is no decent way of managing when and what of these beasties is visible (at least I haven't found one in the numerous times I gave KDE4 svn a spin) as there is no instance that could elevate a plasmoid above everything else - because you might need to have a look at it but at the same time have the rest of the "proper" windows accessible.
And here is the problem: A load of functionality previously offered by fully fledged windows (even if some were only connected with mini-icons the window opened from them were fully functional) with decoration, task bar entries and easy switching to and from has been transformed into these functionally hampered and thus mostly useless plasmoids! So it becomes a hard decision to maximise the image window in which you are editing a picture while at the same time you'd need access to some plasmoid contents.
Why do so many things have to be exempt from the usual window management? Why can't I switch by pressing Alt-Tab from one window to the contents of a plasmoid (which has replaced a former functional small application) and back to my application again?
They might be the newest design fad but for me they are the downfall of KDE4 and a major disapointment. I have been a fan of KDE and Qt since early days and I hope some common sense will reappear. My hopes of that happening are dwindling rapidly though...
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The only mistake
by Picander on Monday 14/Jul/2008, @07:48
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The only mistake was version numbering. People are used to see 3.99.12 when a 4 version in incomplete. This generated a lot of confusion because they thought kde was way more complete when 4.0.0 was released.
The second half-mistake is that people still don't understand where plasma is going. Maybe an update to the plasma site would help a lot to understand what's the developers vision. I guess it's intended to be more than a platform for desktop toys, but at the moment this is the only thing people can see.
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keep up the great work
by a computer science student on Thursday 17/Jul/2008, @01:15
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I want to add a positive voice here (mine). KDE4 is really a great step and especially plasma is an innovation with much potential.
I don't understand some of the complaints, KDE3 is still maintained and everyone can use it until KDE4 is mature.
I trust, that the kde team knows about the importance of stability on the long term.
Keep up the great work, I'm sure many (maybe particulary new) users will like KDE4.
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11 Myths about KDE
by Mark W. Shelby on Tuesday 22/Jul/2008, @08:45
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Hey, I have a crazy radical idea...
Why not post your story on the front page of the KDE website instead of on Groklaw? Don't you think more people will look to the source (www.kde.org) to check out your response?
When your team answers in various other publications it looks like your efforts are not unified. But then again, maybe that's what the complaints are alledging?
I actually really like the 4.x series desktop. I think it is revolutionary to some degree. I like the framework. But hey, KDE's communication skills as an organization are abysmal! Put a link on the first screen seen on www.kde.org. that is clearly distinguishable to the non-development community so that people can find out more about what KDE is and is not(yet.)
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KDE 4.0 is a revolution
by tehsagemaster on Wednesday 23/Jul/2008, @20:29
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I personally love where KDE 4.0 is going. Its like having the best of Microsoft, Apple, and Linux mixed. My opinion on bitches is to ignore them. They are the same lame ass bitches that complain when Microsoft wants to change something because they got a lot of request for it, and same goes for Apple. They are also the same assholes that bitch for McDonald's giving them hot Coffee.
There are lots of good ideas out there and as developers I say to to get as many as you can in. People like to bitch because it makes them feel better, hell, even I feel better now because I'm bitching about the bitches. Seriously though, keep up the great work, someday KDE 4.X will be done and people will start to notice why its awesome, especially the computer illiterate that only knows what Windows is and found out they can get a OS that is not much more of a learning curve and is free vs $1000 for Microsucks Winblowz and Office Ultimate suck.
I am not currently using KDE 4.X because I'm waiting for it to get more stable, but I'm keeping watch on the news and in a Virtual box. At the moment if you need a few ideas, I am using Linux Mint 5 and really like it. On of my biggest pet peeves I'm still waiting to see a cure for in nearly all Linux is Network Transparency and being able to play media without needing them to copy first(Gnome is fine on that). This is a good feature of Microsoft that is making it difficult for me to get rid of them completely. Basically, I can mount/map a share and it works the same a folder and all apps can use it equally. I can also have that share/map start automatically with Windows. Great feature to have for Songbird and any related program, and to have that program use your server as its working location. Fuse sorta helps, but I would like to see something that is natural to KDE/Gnome and any desktop linux. Supposedly GIO/GVFS is suppose to help cure this problem, don't know what the plans are for KDE.
Again, keep up the great work and I hope my two cents meant something.
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Thank you for the article
by Cobb on Thursday 24/Jul/2008, @09:02
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THANK YOU! It is about tie someone made these points. Question, does Sebastian write often from Groklaw? I would not have expected a KDE "clarification" article to be on Groklaw.
Cobb
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The Fine Print: The previous
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Posted by Sebastian Kuegler on Friday 11/Jul/2008, @13:59