SEP
9
2001

KDE 2.2.1/3.0 Release Schedules Updated/Posted

Waldo Bastian, the KDE 2.x release coordinator, has announced that KDE
2.2.1 was packaged as a tarball yesterday and will be officially released on September 17, 2001. Those
of you expecting the release this Monday will be happy to know that the extra week was used to squash bugs. At about the same time, Dirk Mueller, the new KDE 3.x release coordinator (thanks, Dirk!), posted the projected KDE 3.0 release schedule. The short and sweet: first beta on December 3, 2001, first release candidate on January 7,
2002, and KDE 3.0 on February 25, 2002. Unlike the KDE 1 to KDE 2 change, this one
should be much smoother: Qt has changed far less, and very few (if any) core applications will be completely rewritten, as many were for KDE 2.

Comments

I've made B2 do that now, with the rest to follow shortly.

Cheers,
gallium


By gallium at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

I always wondered why the "Buttons" tab wasn't grayed out like the "settings" tab when you couldn't change the buttons. It was kind of confusing I guess if all the themes support it, though, it won't be a problem anymore. (what about the IceWM theme support though?)


By not me at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

The buttons tab does get greyed out if you don't select the custom button positions checkbox. Which settings tab are you talking about? The configure tab?

With the IceWM theme support in KDE 2.2, the buttons are customisable, as are the themes. I don't understand your post, please clarify what you mean.


By gallium at Fri, 2001/09/14 - 5:00am

I think that KDE Menu is too crowded. How about moving most of the top level subcategories to a "Program" subcategory. It'd appear a LOT less crowded then. Right now, I think that there is a plethora of items in the Kmenu, which sucks for usability and low resolutions. Fix it :p.

I also look forward to KDE 3.0.


By Locke at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

No, I don't think so.
Having to go one submenu deeper as in windows is less userfriendly.
If you don't like it, it's easy to change the menu on your harddisk, it's only a bunch of .desktop files which have to be moved around.

Alex


By aleXXX at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

> Having to go one submenu deeper as in windows is less userfriendly.

I agree with you. However I think it would be good to gather in one menu item "Parameters and help" the entries Configure, Control Center, Kprinter, Help...

> If you don't like it, it's easy to change the menu on your harddisk,

I think it is not really easy. It is heavy. A dynamic change of the KMenu, like in MS Windows, would be useful...


By Alain at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

> I agree with you. However I think it would be good to gather in one menu item "Parameters and help" the entries Configure, Control Center, Kprinter, Help...

I would prefer one submenu for "Preferences", which shows all the KControl modules and KControl itself. ATM there is a "Preferences" submenu, but it's somewhere in the middle of the applications, not a good idea. :) Should be seperated.

Preferences are preferences, apps are apps...

> I think it is not really easy. It is heavy. A dynamic change of the KMenu, like in MS Windows, would be useful...

I agree, although I don't know how it works in MS Windows. It would be nice to be able to move menu items around. That's not that easy, so there should also be a "Menu Editor". This should only open a window with all submenus as folders, so you can move those items around like usual files. I think that would be the most easy way. BTW: Same could be done for Bookmarks.
If you treat every file, menu entry, bookmark as an object, you can get a very consistens user interface.
You don't have to use the "everything is a file" metapher, much better is the "everything is an object" metapher IMO, although there is not much of a difference. :)


By Spark at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

There is a menu editor, and it works sort of like you describe. It should appear in your K menu but if it doesn't try right-clicking the K menu and select Preferences. There is also a bookmark editor which is pretty nice. How did you miss those? :-)


By not me at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

Hmm no, I would prefer them to show up in a Konqueror window, so I don't have to learn a new app. :)
Just a suggestion thought. Maybe it's not the best idea. :)
BeOS does it this way and it works very good. Even mails are files and you can move, sort, search, whatever them just like other files.
But this does only work with an enhanced filesystem... too bad, that KDE can't expect a special filesystem.


By Spark at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

I've always played with the thought of implementing a menu-KIO-slave so that a file-view could be accomplished.

Dragging files to this slave would create .desktop-files etc....

is this already done????


By Jens Nordenbro at Sun, 2002/10/20 - 5:00am

Tooltips should be displayed in the default monospaced font. Not proportional.


By Monor at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

No. Can't think why you would want this!

But a seperate definable font for tooltips is what you really want, perhaps. If there isn't one all ready (there isn't in 2.1 - not looked at 2.2).


By Corba the Geek at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

hi,

kde2 is great!!!
a. would be good to have a rightclick menu to add the sender to a spam list.
b. to set a rule how to handle it (-> move to trash)
c. --> so the filter list will be clearer because there is an extra spamlist

thanx to all developers
-gunnar


By gunnar at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

I would also like an option to "ask before downloading" a mail with attachments.
Or something like that.
There is a nasty worm going around here that sends a lot of mails with attachments and can really make checking for email a nasty thing. :(
It always has different titles and different attachments, only the body is the same.
Sometimes it would be nice to delete those mails without downloading them. Also usefull if some kid thinks it's fun to send mailbombs.


By Spark at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

Must say that KDE has improved enourmosly since I first tried it in 1996. But there is one thing that has irritated me ever since..

Why must the "K" menu look and work like "Start" in windows, it even works worse and is uglier? The "Start" menu has never worked very well in windows either from a usability point of view... it just confuses the user and makes it hard to find an application. As everybody now, home users has tons of applications installed and the "Programs"-folder in windows grows several pages long.. not very easy to find The applications you are looking for... and KDE suffers from the same. Maybe ever worse because often an application doesent connect to the name of the folder it is found in.

A complete new application access theory is needed! Something that the world has never seen before!

KDE could lead the way of a complete new navigation theory, must say that I havent figured how yet, it could really accomplish something instead of just copying bad ideas from other os's. This would be a BIG step ahead in competion. As easy access to applications is one of the most important ideas of a modern GUI.

-daniel-


By Daniel at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

I agree although you must give credit to KMenu for putting commonly used apps in the root. It has always amazed me that MS don't do this and their equivalent, Personalised Menus, is pathetic and simply doesn't work.

We should strive to produce a unique way to launch applications rather than stick with the START menu idea which has never worked IMHO.

I use ALT-F2 - much better than any menu system!!


By Paul Drummond at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

Looking forward to hear your ideas :-)
(seriously)

Alex


By aleXXX at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

Probably the best solution would be: customizable "drawers" for Kicker.
Anyway, Alt+F2 rules.


By AB at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

I personally like the Macintosh style global menu at the top, but I tend to not use it because it doesn't have the K menu... I would have to also use the taskbar at the bottom which does have it, and I don't like using 2 bars.

Any chance the Mac-like global menu will eventually have a K button over on the left similar to how MacOS has that "Apple logo" menu?

(pardon me if it does and I overlooked it. I'm still using 2.1 though)


By PRR at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

Seems that Mosfet is your man. :)
According to his website, he is currently working on this:
http://mosfet.org/macmenu2.jpg


By Spark at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

Ever since I can remember, I've been using desktop icons to launch frequently used applications. I've done this while using Windows and MacOS.

However, while using KDE, I don't ever recall using desktop icons. I just don't know why. I usually either click on buttons in kicker or launch from a konsole instead.

Anyone else notice this (not using desktop icons in KDE). Curiously enough, I *did* use a lot of desktop icons in KDE 1.x. I don't really know why, but I still like the *feel* of kfm, even though I know that konqi is a much better application.


By Larry Konzac at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

people like the Ideas of Icons, the see them as objects, menuse are harder for people to understand. if oyu set up a directory with a special Icon and call it applications, when they open it, they see the applications broken down into groups, internet, office, development, and the misc can just be at the top level. that way, people can just look for the application, it is very much like the mac system. BTW I also like how mac staticly links its applications so you can move the application around with out breaking it or relinking it to the correct library. I think they use Hexbin files. why can't Linux use this meathod of program distrobution?


By Jeremy Petzold at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

http://www.kde.org/whatiskde/proj.html#A bit of KDE History

You probably also used Win95 in 1992 and Linux back in 1989 eh?


By Danny at Wed, 2001/09/12 - 5:00am

Since 1997.. thanks for correcting me.

-daniel-


By Daniel at Wed, 2001/09/12 - 5:00am

I have always liked the idea of THE BRAIN. It might be changed enough to be a new and effecient file system explorer/desktop for KDE. Just a thought. E


By Mr Frog at Tue, 2001/09/18 - 5:00am

What's BRAIN? do you mean the stuff inside my head or just a name of something else?

ANYWAY,

I was thinking, what about using hi-tech stuff, such as voice recognition?
Well I guess that sort of stuff is either slow or expensive right now (open source would be GREAT!)

Also, how about using GESTURES, like in Blender?
Today I was watching some guys using this expensive software package for designing printed circuit boards, and they were hardly TOUCHING the keyboard! They use gestures for everything, from zooming in and out to closing a window to bringing up a help window! Well I think maybe there could be some sort of alternate menu, if anyone can think of one, but also use user-defined gestures for commonly used stuff...?

just a thought.


By Luke at Wed, 2001/09/19 - 5:00am

I have both KDE 2.2 and Ximian GNOME 1.4.
Some libraries from kde-pim rpms have same name of Ximian Evolution's libraries.


By Dratomix at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

What version of Evolution do you have?


By Evandro at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

A few things are missing in kde:

1) Find in ftp directories (ever tried to search a specific rpm on a ftp mirror?)

2) _configurable_ right click menus in, for example, konqueror. So we can finally:
- add to zip, tgz, bzip2
- send to kate, kword, kmail
- etc

3) Change screen resolution & virtual screen size. (I know, I know, this is an XFree thingy, but RandR extension is progressing terribly slowly, Maybe a dirty
QT hack can solve this by just telling the apps screen size is now 800x600 even if
the virtual screen is 1024x768??)

4) Copy/paste of Objects like spreadsheat cells, pictures, etc. Or is QT3 already doing this?

5) Control panel for system resources. I know we have a lot of system information in the control panel, but loading/unloading modules + setting
parameters like irq, dma io etc. would be nice. Also nice for turning off/on
DMA, etc on you HDD.

Danny


By Danny at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

Actually, you could have "send to zip file" in the RMB since before KDE 1.0, and it is not even hard to do :-)

Step a: find a simple tool that does what you want. If what you want is for it to ask what zip file the current file/dir should be added to and just add it there using zip -a (or whatever zip uses), a simple ten line shell script should be enough, a nice GUI can be added if you want, should be VERY easy.

Step b: Save that script/program/whatever somewhere in your PATH withj the name "Send to ZIP File"

Step c: associate "Send to ZIP File" with the default filetype in konqueror.

Voilá.

I should really write an article with this kind of things :-)


By Roberto Alsina at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

>I should really write an article with this kind of things :-)

What you *should* do is create the script and send it to the kde-devel mailing list so it can be added to KDE. That way all users of KDE can benefit from your little additions, with no effort.

KDE is sorely lacking nice right-click associations such as this one. If you created a bunch and mailed them to the developers, I'll bet they would be added.


By not me at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

Hell, I could add them myself if I was so inclined!

But really, something explaining how to do these things means users can create them too. And as you know, there's plenty more of them, and they think they know what they want ;-)


By Roberto Alsina at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

Sorry for my poor english... :)

With KDE 2.2, we can create a ftp link in konqueror ( ftp://login:pwd@server if i remember) using 'http link', but.

Unfortunately:
1) It's hard to remember. It's would be cool to add "ftp link" in the right mouse list, with the differents options like an ftp client (ftp server, login, pwd, passive mode,...).

2) Actualy, we can't edit file from ftp like 'UltraEdit' on Windows. On Kate for example, it edit the file "ftp link" itself, but don't browse the server to select a file like an harddrive. It's unless...


By Johann Ollivier... at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

2) Actualy, we can't edit file from ftp like 'UltraEdit' on Windows. On Kate for example, it edit the file "ftp link" itself, but don't browse the server to
select a file like an harddrive. It's unless...

I suppose you mean "it's useless"?

You are doing it backwards.

You don't open the link with kate, you open the link, then use kate to edit whatever is in inside the FTP server.


By Roberto Alsina at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

>> You don't open the link with kate, you open the link, then use kate to edit whatever is in inside the FTP server.

I just load up Kate, and hit "Open File", and enter ftp://user:pass@ftp.server.com/ (add it to the bookmarks the first time). Browse the remote filesystem, and load and save files.

--
Evan


By Evan "JabberWok... at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

A couple of issues with SuSE distributions that I'm wondering if they have been fixed or will be fixed in this or future releases:

1) objPrelinking (found under the experimental i686 rpms). Supposedly makes things run faster, I guess, however, having these features set up causes Konqueror (greatest Linux program EVER, btw) to crash on the simplest Javascript functions. This has been documented and a solution found at the konq faq said, "Don't use the i686 rpms". WTF? That's not a solution.

2) Not sure if this is a Kde issue or not (but I think it is). After installing X4.1.0, kdm doesn't load anymore. It bails out with

"/opt/kde2/bin/kdm: error while loading shared libraries: /opt/kde2/bin/kdm: __
undefined symbol: _XdmcpWrapperToOddParity"

Again, this has been documented (somewhere I forget). It is also features a non-solution reading something on the order of "this version of kdm is incompatible." This causes alot of problems for a newbie idiot like me (such as how do I switch WMs now?)

Sorry to bitch, because you K developers have got to be the creme da le creme if I've ever seen it. Hope to join you some day.

Regards,
~Z


By Zaq Rizer at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

2) Not sure if this is a Kde issue or not (but I think it is). After installing X4.1.0, kdm doesn't load anymore. It bails out with

"/opt/kde2/bin/kdm: error while loading shared libraries: /opt/kde2/bin/kdm: __
undefined symbol: _XdmcpWrapperToOddParity"

This is not a problem with KDE, it's a problem with your binary KDE packages. I use KDE 2.2, compiled from source and X 4.1.0 and there is no problem with kdm.


By Christian Hengs... at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

I have a real problem with the idea that All data is saved to files. Likewise that the file to go to the Printer is somehow unique. It should be apparent that the idea of Export/Import suggests that the File Menu is incorrect. It is simply a hang-over from days gone by.

Instead, there should be three possible types of Streams being outputed.
General, most likely a local format.
Record-Oriented (perhaps xml based).
Page-Oriented (postscript) .
At that point, then should have a dialog from which to send the Stream, that is, record-oriented can go to Files, Databases, E-Mail, IM, etc.
Page-oriented can be sent to the Printer, but could also be converted to images, or perhaps Fax (tiff vs postscript).
Offer filters for converting from one format to another to be used across all apps e.g. portscript -> jpeg, postscript -> tiff, My application specific General Stream -> html.
Finally, change the menu to reflect it.

Location
New
--------
(Defaults)
--------
Send To...
Get From...
--------
Close
Exit

(Default) should be a user modifable area where they can place the common ones, such as File, or Print.

The Send To should bring up a Dialog for sending the Streams to various areas. General Stream available => File System, Http, Ftp, E-mail, another Application (think pipe).
Record Stream available => same as General Streams, Database.
Page Stream available => same as General Streams, Printer, Fax.


By G. Richard Raab at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

Please separate out the Linux-only software into their own package. Since KDE is more than just a Linux-only desktop, it makes no sense to make non Linux users download software they will never use. Most of these tools (which are fine Linux tools, by the way) are in the kdeadmin package, but a few are not. Even stuff like the Tux icons are inappropriate outside of Linux.

I know most of you guys develop on Linux, and that some of you don't even realize the existance of other operating systems, but there are a few of us out here using other Unix systems.

By placing these programs into their own package, such as kdelinux, they can still be considered "default" programs by Linux distros and users.


By David Johnson at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

I disagree about the Tux thing. Tux is not Linux and causes no imcompatibility under other operating systems.


By Carg at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

Tux, might not be Linux but it symbolizes Linux. Those of us that prefer not to run Linux do not want to be subjected to the Linux mascot. Why should people who run BSD, Solaris, Tru64, etc have to view the image of Linux's mascot on our systems? We prefer not too, and therefore ask the developers nicely if they can do something about that.


By Joey Garcia at Wed, 2001/09/12 - 5:00am

I second this motion. I totally agree with you here. I think it's pointless for me to have those Linux applications which will do me no good. Although, sometimes you might build from source and it builds everything. Perhaps there should be a way to check the OS and build applications that ware suitable for that OS in order to keep the needless applications down to a minimum.

Also, in the Kontrol Center application where you can adjust the settings for various things there is an option to view some of the system's status which doesn't seem to work outside of Linux. I'm thinking these things should be conditionalized to the point that if it's not going to be built for Linux, then don't build those parts of it.

Anyawys, that's just my opinion.


By Joey Garcia at Wed, 2001/09/12 - 5:00am

I think that alongside with the option to show thumbnails of files as their icon in konqueror, there should be possible to preview them in the right-click menu, just like picaview does in windows (but for more than just images), perhaps with an option to just show a square reading "preview" until the user clicks it. This would give the users some of the advantages of thumbnais without having to process an entire directory along with some of the advantages of the embedded image viewer, without having to constantly go back and forth.


By Carlos Rodrigues at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

I have a really cool CDE-ish green color theme, and earlier I had a nice blue one. The blue one I had to get rid of because on the virtual desktop, the numbers wouldn't display. My new white on dark green one, which is shown in the attatched screenshot, has a white window background and white text for buttons and menus.

There is a problem with the calendar widgets, and I've seen it one other time and I don't remember when. The white toolbar, status, etc. text gets put on the white calendar background. This is shown in the attatchment.

So I want this improved. I'd like the white on white problem fixed, as well as the nearly invisible desktop numbering when it's dark blue.

Also, it would be nice if the dark-buttoned konqueror widgets had white text as well.

KDE would then be the best supporter of the dark-buttoned look.


By Benjamin Atkin at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

looks very nice.. yeah, I agree that more dark-friendly changes need to be made or KDE will be very racist. heh :)


By anonymous ab00ser at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

I think that the KDE control panel needs to be reworked. Right now, it is *way* too cluttered, and is thus hard to find things. I think a better approach would be to have it like MS-Windows or MacOS, in which the top level control panel shows large icons (the current things in the tree. Each of these, when clicked, would open a new window with the options.

As for KDE applications, I think that a little bit more consistance is good, especially in menu items. For example, decide if you want to call the preferences/options/settings menu item in an app one or the other. It varies quite a bit in KDE applications.

It'd also be nice to configure the Kate editor part's options in kcontrol, as you can already configure Konqueror and kwin options there.

If you fix these in KDE 3.0, it'll make my day. If you don't, that's ok too :)./


By purity at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

> I think that the KDE control panel needs to be reworked

We are just about to do that :)


By Daniel Molkentin at Mon, 2001/09/10 - 5:00am

Nice! What are you guys planning?


By purity at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

Hi, this is what I'd like to see in KDE 3, in addition to most of the other wishes already:

1. Make all menus tearoffable
2. Menus should be tearoffable by simply 1). clicking on a menu while still holding the mouse down 2). move the mouse down under the menu 3). a shadow of the menu would then popup, and it can be moved wherever

3. move the tearoff handle in menus to the TOP, instead of the bottom, like where it is now. This is especially more better in terms of usability for long menus.

Thank You!


By theref at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

Tearoff menus are nice, no more running thru the same menus to do the same task repeatedly, but... the tearoff item looks ugly in some menus, like the K menu, so there should be an option to disable it (for the K menu), better yet... two options, "Enable tearoff menus" and "Enable tearoff K menu".

And while at it, make an option to disable the fade in taskbar buttons, I really prefer that "..." instead.

Bottom line: options are nice.


By Carlos Rodrigues at Tue, 2001/09/11 - 5:00am

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