APR
26
2002

KOffice 1.2beta1 Ready for Testing, More Developers

The KDE Project today
announced the release of KOffice 1.2beta1.
While the "final" 1.2 release is not scheduled for another 5 months, this
is a great chance to see what the active KOffice developers are up to,
and also a great time for new developers / companies to join the KOffice
project to accelerate the ascendence of KOffice into the
market-leading office suite position <grin>.
The highlights of this release are WYSIWYG in KWord, KPresenter and formula objects,
much enhanced scriptability via DCOP, and a number of new and enhanced
filters, including an XSLT framework for mapping between different
XML office formats. Read the announcement for the many details,
and feel free to give
thanks
to those awesome
KOffice developers!

Comments

So KDE runs on virtually every platform except OS_X. QT runs on OS_X, why doest the KDE project work on porting to OS_X with X11.


By james brown at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

I always thought that people switched from *nix to OSX *because* they preferred the OSX gui... if you're going to use a unix front and a unix back end, why not just use unix? Is there more demand for an OSX port?

... back to work for me ...


By Matt Casey at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

macosx is just as unix as e.g. freebsd


By Q at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

so blackbox, gnome, enlightenment all run on OS_X (darwin with Xfree86 4.2) You can even run enlightenment in rootless mode on top of the OS_X gui (quartz layer).


By james brown at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

OS X IS Unix.


By User at Mon, 2002/10/28 - 6:00am

Mac OS X is not UNIX, it's BSD (BSD is like a GNU)
The BSD at one-stage became so popular that they called it BSD-UNIX/UNIX-BSD
UNIX is a trademark of the "the Open group", I Think :)
They decide what can be called UNIX or not.
For e.g Solaris is UNIX Based. that's why it's not free!

From what I Know...

But Apple/Darwin still Kool in my boox


By RedVenim at Mon, 2004/02/09 - 6:00am

I don't claim to be an expert on this, but I think that you don't understand the question which you asked.

XFree86 will run on Mac OS X but it replaces the Mac GUI.

That is, it is running on the UNIX foundation -- Darwin.

Then KDE should run on X11 on Darwin.

But, KDE isn't ever going to run on Mac OS X because it is going to replace the Mac GUI.

Check out the XFree and Darwin sites for more info.

--
JRT


By James Richard Tyrer at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

you can run X11 apps in a rootless WM side-by-side with native Apple apps in OS X. so while one might not use kwin or kdesktop, they may well want to use konqueror, koffice apps, kmail, etc...


By Aaron J. Seigo at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Precisely,
I for one would like to get away from MS Word (which is completely unreliable)
on my Mac.
Given XDarwin and OroborOSX, having KDE apps on OS X would be grand.
(lsbcgk 6).
However, I will experiment with the linux version first.


By Luc Beaudoin at Tue, 2003/01/21 - 6:00am

Feel free to do it :)


By Tim Jansen at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

QT may be crossplatform, but KDE libs isn't. It doesn't run on any platform except UNIX/X.
But I rather have a pure port to OS X. If KOffice was a pure QT application, it won't be enough. KOffice won't be able to follow dirrectly the Macintosh Human Interface Guide (e.g. toolbars should be outside the main window as oppose to inside the main window).

Let's just keep this wonder called KOffice to ourselves, k?


By Rajanr at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Actually, if you look at the Qt for OS X screenshots, you'll see that they made the toolbar go in the proper position. However I think most users could get over that - the idea of porting KDE to Darwin/X11 is pretty cool though. There's no GPL Qt for OS X which is a sticking point as far as a pure conversion goes.


By Bryan Feeney at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Uhm, all the screenshots of QT on OS X shows the toolbar positioned inside the window.
Besides, just like what happen here, by porting KOffice to Qt of OS X, and ask discreetly for RMS to start a flamewar and get some of his sidekicks to start a replacement project for KOffice for OS X, which could cause into a GPL version of QT....


By Rajan Rishyakaran at Sat, 2002/04/27 - 5:00am

Now I know, I was confusing it with the menubar. That's a really insane way of arranging things in my opinion. Though the Mac interface kinda gets to me at times, probably I'm just too used to the Windows/KDE way of doing things at this stage.

The point I meant to make though was that there's no need to convert KDE to Qt/Mac to get it working on OS X, just convert it to Darwin/X11. Qt/X11 _is_ GPL. There's a load of screenshots scattered across the net showing how well Darwin/X11 works, there's a big chunk of Gnome/GTK apps working on it already. Maybe Darwin can be made another target for KDE 4.


By Bryan Feeney at Sat, 2002/04/27 - 5:00am

There's a couple of us working on it over at the fink project (http://fink.sourceforge.net/). There are some interesting porting issues that keep it from being a simple recompile, mostly from KDE making some assumptions about dynamic libraries that aren't true on OSX.

There is a libdl compatibility library that works around some of those issues, but there are still some other things needing fixing. I've gotten everything up to kdebase to build (and I even got a konsole!) but there are some os-specific bits that still need to fixed (kdeinit being the one that's most annoying). It'll happen, but it will still be another couple of months if not more.


By Ranger Rick at Sat, 2002/04/27 - 5:00am

Because OSuX has broken dynamic libs :P


By unanimity at Sat, 2002/04/27 - 5:00am

Qt runs on Windows. Does KDE runs on Windows ?

The question is almost the same. Qt for MacOS X is a new platform and has nothing
to do with Qt for UNIX (but the same API).

Qt UNIX will run on MacOS X with X11 installed. So you can probanly easily port
KDE to MacOS X, running on top of that Qt that runs on top of X11. Much like a
usual UNIX system. But that would not be worth much. Why not running directly
Linux or *BSD on that hardware ? You'll have a snapier system.


By Hubert Figuiere at Thu, 2002/05/02 - 5:00am

Here's a Question: if Mac OS X is integrating so much with Linux then Won't they take a piece of Linux's user base?

If Novell or Sco win then won't Linux users have to move to BSD alternative such as Freebsd

Just Maybe in my view Apple will Be a Good Platform to design both a KDE to run on Aqua and a KDE that can run from BSDcmd-line (text)

opendarwin.org has Apple's Base with XFree86 (Not OSX) if You Build on that won't it be great starting point? for PPC and x86 as well


By RedVenim at Mon, 2004/02/09 - 6:00am

> Here's a Question: if Mac OS X is integrating so much with Linux then Won't they take a piece of Linux's user base?

I don't think so as long as they want over 2200 Euro for a PowerPC G5 when a comparable PC cost just a little over 1100 Euro.


By Christian Loose at Tue, 2004/02/10 - 6:00am

Excellent! Can't wait to give the new KOffice a try.... :-)

A big "thanks!" from down here in little ol' New Zealand .....


By Sagittarius at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

For those of us who aren't on kde mailing lists, what it the difference between Kontour and Karbon?

Is Karbon a komplete rewrite?

just wondering.


By ac at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

they are two seperate apps that have essentially only the koffice and kde libs in common. one is more Adobe-like, while one is more Corel-like. they may or may not merge in the future. for now they are being developed by seperate people and have different UI styles and capabilities.


By Aaron J. Seigo at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Now, this looks VERY promising! Especially the antialiasing and transparency support.

Have you ever had a look at Xara X (www.xara.com), Lenny? It has unsurpassed usability and great transparency features, as well as fractal fills, "fuzzy" borders, and so on... It's the reason I keep booting back to windows sometimes ;-)

I would love to see something comparable on Linux!


By Benno at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

No, unfortunately not. But i heard good things about it.

We hope to get some user input anyway, after we made karbon14 enduser usable. ;)

Bye
Lenny


By Lenny at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Here my user input: place import svg support soon. SVG will be soon the most used vectorial format on unix, since gnome and kde will support it for icons/etc.
Beisdes it's open and cool :)


By Iuri Fiedoruk at Sat, 2002/04/27 - 5:00am

Yes, it is cool, but the problem is that we still don't have any decent graphic tool for creating, importing and exporting svg.


By antialias at Sun, 2002/04/28 - 5:00am

Well, then it's time for someone to get famous by developing such a tool... ;->


By Benno at Mon, 2002/04/29 - 5:00am

Hi

I imagine it might be a recurrent question but I don't see any change in MS Office import/export filters (in the changelog).
Is the development of such filters stopped ? Is it possible to re-use the 95% perfect filters already available in OpenOffice or are you obliged to write them from scratch ?

Nowadays, when using KDE in an office where other people are still on Windows, you have 2 options:

- Become the anti-social geek of the company by refusing Word,Excel and PowerPoint documents... and maybe get fired.

Or

- Wait 30 seconds for OpenOffice to open then either edit it directly from OO or export it to a real file format, modify it in kword, import it again to OO and save it back to Word/Excel/PowerPoint...

So, that would be GREAT if you could simply import/export from/to MS Office formats.

One on the reasons I hear most often to explain the fact that koffice doesn't use OO's filters is that OO uses raw X11 to display widgets while Koffice uses QT widgets. Isn't it possible to create a command-line script to convert MS Office files to Koffice format and vice-versa ?

Not a troll, just an incomprehension of the problem developpers have to face for us, poor users, to get great MS Office import/export filters.

Anyway, I really admire you for doing such a great job and, as somebody already said, I would vote for David Faure as french president if he had dared to present himself at french presidentials :)


By Julien Olivier at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

As posted on /., Bart Decrem (the Eazel guy) had the idea to create an "MS office middleware", which converts office documents into XML [ http://www.linuxandmain.com/features/decrem.html ]. IMHO, this would be a great idea, because not every office development crew had to spend zillion of hours on reenginering and reinventing the wheel...

BTW: A BIG thankyou to the koffice-developers. I cannot believe what you have done..! Great !


By Skaldrom at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Oh that's a great news provided that it's GPL (or LGPL) and that it uses what has been already done for OpenOffice.


By Julien Olivier at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Take a look at this lib http://www.wvWare.com/
Abiword seems to use it.


By aThom at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Great if there is one universal standaard-format being developed for all office programs. Everebody will benefit from that (except Microsoft, but who cares....).


By Maarten Rommerts at Sat, 2002/05/04 - 5:00am

Are there any plans for Wordperfect 5.1 and above format conversion? I have several clients who are dying to move to Linux but neither KOffice nor OpenOffice can open a WordPerfect file! What's up with that?


By tzanger at Sun, 2002/04/28 - 5:00am

use Word Perfect to export the files to word files before backing them up(i would also back up the org. files too). Then switch to Linux and open them up with Kword or Koffice. You might need to keep one Word Perfect/ windows machine to handle bad exports. You use this machine by copy and paste the org. document to an email and emailing it to the linux machine. it is a pain, but it fixes that problem.


By Stuart Williams at Mon, 2002/05/06 - 5:00am

Yup, and what if you by chance found some old WP
document and would like to open it/convert it now?
See, thats the problem I have right now :-/

Any good suggestions on this, anyone??

Best regards,
Kim


By Kim Poulsen at Thu, 2002/07/04 - 5:00am

KWord CVS, and also the one shipped with 1.2, can import WordPerfect faily well, be it 5.x or 6/7/8. However, only formatted text is supported at the moment (no graphics etc). I plan to improve it for 1.3, as well as adding WordPerfect export filter, so someday you'll be able to save KWord doc as WordPerfect doc.


By ariya at Fri, 2002/07/05 - 5:00am

so far, I have yets to find any examples of how to use
koscript.

Although I have used DCOP from the command line I find
scripting in KOffice is pretty obscure.

I'm interested in adding functions to kspread without
writing C++


By Phil at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

What about adding the functions you want to write to KSpread (in C++) so the developer can focus on writing a script editor and things like that (which is on the todo list), so that you will be able to write functions directly.

Just compare with Gnumeric, Excel or StarCalc und you'll see what is missing.

This would be a great help! write to the koffice@kde.org mailing list or to the KSpread developers if you need help or if you have results to add to the KSpread source.

Regards
Norbert


By Norbert at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

I saw small mistakes in the announcement. (KPresenter section)

"Page views. A new thumbnail view of each page in the presentation is now displayed in the sidebar, and a larger view of the current page is displayed _____."

_____?

"Note bar. A new notebar allows you to add comments to each page of a presentation."

Is it "note bar" or "notebar"?


By Andy Goossens at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Hi,
Can anybody tell me if footnotes/endnotes have been implemented
in KOffice 1.2beta? I can really use it without this.
Dont have KDE3.0 yet, so I cant check it out right now.

regards,
Marc


By Marc at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

No, they are not yet implemented. Also missing is hyphenation.

Both omissions make kword unusable for longer scientific texts. I hope something will happen in this area, even though meanwhile OO is a good replacement.


By Moritz Moeller-... at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Hmm, seems like Abiword doesnt have it either. Is it so hard to code?

regards,
Marc


By Marc at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Footnotes are not very hard to do - although they do create some layout problems, in some worse cases, like: there would be room for the footnote text, but then the actual footnote number (what's the proper name?) would
be at the next page -> bug. Or if you move the text containing the footnote
back to the first page, there's no room for the footnote on that page.
(The only solution in such a case is to move both to the next page, I guess,
but I wonder how we'll be able to detect all that stuff ;)

Hyphenation, on the other hand, is a much more difficult matter. No clue how
to address that one - and no "just take the stuff from LaTeX" isn't of any
help, but actually extracting the relevant part, making it independent from the rest, and sending to me, would be very helpful ;)
I was also pointed to http://www.dcs.shef.ac.uk/research/ilash/Moby/,
didn't have any time to look into this. Did I mention that KOffice severely
lacked developers still? ;)


By David Faure at Mon, 2002/04/29 - 5:00am

>Both omissions make kword unusable for longer scientific texts. I hope something will happen in this area, even though meanwhile OO is a good replacement.

Personally I find Word unusable for any scientific texts also. If you want really good professional looking text/hyphenation/equations the only way to go is TeX/LaTeX. I can't imagine having tried to write my PhD thesis with Word!


By Dr_LHA at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Also, LyX (http://www.lyx.org) is a good choice -- it is
an easy-to-use scientific word-processor that is a TeX frontend.


By A Sad Person at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

Does it really matter? Phd thesis is a very limited market.


By reihal at Sat, 2002/04/27 - 5:00am

But it might make a lot of colleges switch to Linux. I know mine has dual boot machines, and all the lecturers pretty much ordered us to use Linux from first year on. Imagine the effect of a a year's Comp. Sci. graduates hitting the workplaces of the world having been brough up on KOffice.


By Bryan Feeney at Sat, 2002/04/27 - 5:00am

It's not only a Phd thesis where this stuff is needed. It's simply impossible to "sell" a word processor for professional use in eg Germany, Russia, Italy, and many other countries if this wp is not capable of proper hyphenation. This is not a problem for languages like English, of course. Depends very much on the average word length, use of compounds etc.

Footnotes, endnotes, or automatic indices may not be as important in many environments. But there are still enough of them where this stuff is critical as well. Just think of any sort of scientific papers, book publishing, lawyers and so on.

Thomas


By thd at Fri, 2002/05/03 - 5:00am

Maybe I've missed something but... you can create a frame at the bottom of a page and configure it so that it copies itself on each page. Isn't it what you call footnotes ?


By Julien Olivier at Fri, 2002/04/26 - 5:00am

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