MAY
7
2002

Bart Decrem re: Desktop Elegance

Here's my official statement in response to the recent controversy over certain comments that slipped out of my mouth during a LOOOONG interview that also happened to include many positive and not-so-controversial comments about KDE. I have now switched to using KDE on a daily basis and I am really enjoying it. Thanks for the feedback and keep on hacking! :-)

Comments

LOSer


By qwe at Sat, 2003/03/15 - 6:00am

well, nice reply Bart, I think most people who did not like the comments are happy now. As for me, I don't see see why his comments created a contraversy so much. KDE (at that time), was just not in his taste of style. Of course, instead of saying that KDE was basically hideous, he could have said it wasn't in his tastes.

Everyone has their taste of style. While I really love KDE - the desktop and project, I tend to use fluxbox more because KDE is just too cluttered imho to use. Realise that it's imho before you flame :)


By fault at Wed, 2002/05/08 - 5:00am

I am so glad that Bart made those 'slips' in his article/interview! It illustrates almost
perfectly why I choose to use Linux/KDE....

-He had the timerity to give HIS opinion. Choice is what it's all about, people!
-He had the platform/outlet to deliver his opinion in a much read and followed publication.
(this shows interest in the community!)
-He got a whole lot (grin) of useful feedback FROM the community. This shows enthusiasm for the KDE project.
-He had the maturity and composure to re-evaluate his remarks and attempt to explain them.

So he's a *geek.* So he made a hurried off-the cuff statement.
So what...

So we all are a little protective of KDE. Let's not be like the folks in Redmond who try to
shove *whateverthehellwewantto* down our throats all the time. Lighten up! Just because
we have a disagreement doesn't me we "take our ball and go home.....!"

I for one like the newer icon's on KDE. When XP first came out I hated the look of it. It seemed
to "cartoonish." The desktop didn't feel "clickable." Now I have gotten used to it and in fact really
like the colors and graphics used. C'mon, lets admit when something looks good....! For me the
difference between XP and Win'98 is like the difference between KDE 2.2x and KDE 1.2x.

Here's to you, KDE and the KDE faithful.... Keep growing and keep bashing!


By Re: Bart's Appology at Wed, 2002/05/08 - 5:00am

Yes, but ...

-He had the timerity to give HIS opinion. Choice is what it's all about, people!

I think he got attacked because the reasoning behind his statements seemed to be ill-stated/ill-researched/incomplete. People then harrassed him about this with the goal of keeping quality of pieces put out about linux high.

-He had the platform/outlet to deliver his opinion in a much read and followed publication.
(this shows interest in the community!)

I think a lot of people are rightly protective of the quality and applicability of the information that goes into linux publications ... otherwise, they will be less read and followed when the S-to-N ratio goes too low.

-He got a whole lot (grin) of useful feedback FROM the community. This shows enthusiasm for the KDE project.

That's a good thing ... but not carefully rereading your statements and making sure that they really mean what you want to convey is not how you request feedback. It takes a bit, emotionally (for the above reasons) out of everybody who makes the effort to put in feedback.

-He had the maturity and composure to re-evaluate his remarks and attempt to explain them.

Seriously, bravo. Wish he'd re-evalutated the remarks (I do this by rereading anything lengthy I send out from top-to-bottom before sending it) and been more precise about what he saw and didn't see, and felt and didn't feel, and why, though, *before* making the effort to

state his opinion (see above)
in a publication that many people read (see above)
for the purpose of collecting feedback (see above)


By Anonymous Coward at Fri, 2002/05/10 - 5:00am

...when people are showing off their beautiful KDE desktop with a beautiful widget-theme, and the only app running on the desktop is a GTK-app? :D


By Per Wigren at Wed, 2002/05/08 - 5:00am

I knew I had that one coming. Two comments:
1- I think all of us (in KDE, GNOME, elsewhere) should be working to make sure that end-users can use whatever their favorite app happens to be in any desktop environment, and have it seemlessly integrate with the "native apps" in that environment. So the end user should be able to use GIMP or Evolution in KDE, or Konqueror in GNOME. This is important because (1) it means more choice and flexibility for the end user, (2) will reduce duplication of efforts as people start to embrace quality product that happens to have been built using a different widget set and (3) ISVs need to know that they can build their app with whatever happens to be the best development tools for them, knowing that ALL Linux users will be able to use their software. Many ISVs will NOT put major effort into developing desktop apps for Linux as long as they feel like they have to "choose" between KDE and GNOME and one of those is going to "lose" and if they bet on the wrong one, they'll be out of luck;
2- I'm new to KDE so don't know how to make screenshots other than with GIMP, hence its appearance on my desktop. Does KDE3.0 come with a screenshot utility?

Cheers,

Bart


By Bart Decrem at Thu, 2002/05/09 - 5:00am

>Does KDE3.0 come with a screenshot utility?

Yes, It's called ksnapshot. You can find it somewhere like:

kmenu -> Graphics -> More Programs -> KSnapshot


By ac at Thu, 2002/05/09 - 5:00am

"I think all of us (in KDE, GNOME, elsewhere) should be working to make sure that end-users can use whatever their favorite app happens to be in any desktop environment, and have it seemlessly integrate with the "native apps" in that environment."

Bart,

Go look at the metatheme project. I know it is from gnome/ximian, but it lets you select themes for many different things (WM's, gtk, xmms, icons, etc). It uses a simple plugin system, just write a qt plugin. That way you can create metathemes that do exactly what you want.


By GnCuster at Thu, 2002/05/09 - 5:00am

I've used Metathemes in Gnome, but wasn't aware that it also let me control my KDE themage. In any event, I'm talking about more than just themes - also things like Copy/Paste working properly, similar menu layouts, and eventually component embedding I guess.

I just tried copy/pasting between Abiword and K Word and wasn't able to do so. The menus looked totally different. Exit in one was Quit in the other, and the shortcuts were different. That sort of stuff...

Bart


By Bart Decrem at Fri, 2002/05/10 - 5:00am

"but wasn't aware that it also let me control my KDE themage."

At the moment it cannot. But it's design is such that it could ;) I know some people who are working to make it so. I generaly agree with you that more work needs to be done to ensure that the linux desktop is coherent. I was simply pointing you to a tool many with in the gnome comunity (and by deduction most in the kde comunity) do not know exists


By GnCuster at Fri, 2002/05/10 - 5:00am

I knew I had that one coming. Two comments:
1- I think we should all (KDE, GNOME, other developers) be working to make sure that users can use whatever their favorite app happens to be in any desktop environment, If a user wants to use Evolution in KDE, or Konqueror in GNOME, that's a good thing and we should work to make sure that those apps integrate seamlessly with native apps. 3 reasons: (1) It gives more choice to users, and choice is a good thing, (2) It will help reduce duplication of effort as we can start embracing apps that have been built with "the other" toolkit, (3) Many ISVs will not put serious effort into developing Linux desktop apps as long as they feel like there are two platforms, one is going to "lose" and if they bet on the wrong platform, they'll be out of luck;
2- I'm new to KDE. How do I make screenshots, other than using GIMP?

Cheers,

Bart


By Bart Decrem at Thu, 2002/05/09 - 5:00am

>I'm new to KDE. How do I make screenshots, other than using GIMP?

ksnapshot does the trick


By Josh at Thu, 2002/05/09 - 5:00am

Well I guess you were right it is the kde that sucks. And it's true that icons and keramik are awesome. Maybe you should try gnome2 last build with these icons... but I guess you are now too much kde+addons, I think after 3 weeks you will change your mind,
cheers, and by the way Ximian KDE is coming and evolution is being ported to Qt, so start whining.


By Dough at Fri, 2002/05/10 - 5:00am

I'm actually using both KDE and GNOME now. About 50/50. Actually, the one big remaining issue I have with KDE is that I haven't found anything like Ximian Red Carpet. I'm running Red Hat Linux and Red Carpet is just a really terrific updater for my Gnome packages, so I for one would be delighted if there was Red Carpet for KDE or an app that's similarly well done. Is there?

Bart


By Bart Decrem at Fri, 2002/05/10 - 5:00am

That's up to your distribution. If you use Red Hat they have an Updater, so do Mandrake, SuSE and Debian.


By ac at Fri, 2002/05/10 - 5:00am

make -f Makefile.cvs
./configure --prefix=/usr (that's because you run RedHat)
make
make install


By antialias at Fri, 2002/05/10 - 5:00am

apt-get install kde

Hopefully every distribution will be able to do that eventually, not just debian. It would make redundant the need for the Ximian updater I think. Anyway, can't you get apt-rpm for distros like Mandrake (does it come with it?), Suse, Redhat?


By ac at Sat, 2002/05/11 - 5:00am

> by the way Ximian KDE is coming and evolution is being ported to Qt, so start whining.

bullshit.


By ac at Fri, 2002/05/10 - 5:00am

> by the way Ximian KDE is coming and evolution is being ported to Qt, so start whining.

Reference for that please?


By Anonymous at Fri, 2002/05/10 - 5:00am

[n/t]


By funny guy at Sun, 2002/05/12 - 5:00am

You Have Been Trolled. You Have Lost. Have A Nice Day.


By Not so Funny Guy at Fri, 2004/12/31 - 6:00am

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