SEP
2
2002

Linux Journal's Editor's Choice Award

"Linux Journal's Editor's Choice Awards are well-known as the premiere forum recognizing outstanding product developments and achievements in the Linux market. A panel of more than 50 distinguished Linux experts was assembled to nominate products for the awards, which were then sent to the Linux Journal editors who chose the final winners." KDE 3.0 wins the honour of best Consumer Software. Konqueror obtained an honorable mention as Web Client but was beaten up by Mozilla and Galeon. KDevelop also received an honorable mention as Development Tool alongst with Borland Kylix, both being beaten by Emacs -- but had they tried KVim?
The Sharp Zaurus was also selected as best Mobile Device and Product of the Year -- good news for QtE.

Comments

If KDE and GNOME had worked out some more standards, and a more unyfied look-and-feel thid wouldn't be nesseary..........Red Hat is sending GNOME and KDE a message with this.................We should open our eyes now.


By Maarten Rommerts at Wed, 2002/09/04 - 5:00am

GREAT IDEA :-)!


By mojo at Sun, 2003/07/06 - 5:00am

the word you are looking for is synergy
you would like to see synergy between linux developers..


By matt at Sat, 2004/10/16 - 5:00am

yes! yes! and another word you should be looking for is proactive.
we should be proactive about it!

:-)


By KDE User at Sat, 2004/10/16 - 5:00am

Why do I have to read comments about Gnome everytime I visit
this site? This is dot.kde.org, not dot.gnome.org

One comment about Gnome once in a while would be ok but
it´s really becoming too much.


By KDE User at Tue, 2002/09/03 - 5:00am

Amen.


By Johnny Andersson at Tue, 2002/09/03 - 5:00am

I also gota suggestion, CAN Kvim 6.1 be integrated into KDevelop by default in KDE 3.1. That would rock!!!! Also Evolution is much more powerful than Kmail, I cans ee the weather, news, I ahve a calendar, great filters, tasks etc. Hwoever Kmail, is the best if all you want is mail and only mail.


By Alex at Wed, 2002/09/04 - 5:00am

Please try Korganizer! It's a very fine app, and it integrates with
kmail (you just have to add a special filter program to the kmail
inbox to sort out messages for korganizer)...

For the weather thingy. I've tried evolution half a year ago and on the weather-page it had no european countries only the us...
Or was it me who just did not know what to click?


By thomas at Wed, 2002/09/04 - 5:00am

Don't know, but I definetly have the weither for Duesseldorf/Germany there. =)
Not that I would consider this to be an extremely important feature...


By Spark at Wed, 2002/09/04 - 5:00am

Don't people understan. KDE is a complete desktop. All small parts/apps
make up KDE. The idea is NOT to have one huge app that solves
all your problems.


By OI at Wed, 2002/09/04 - 5:00am

> I also gota suggestion, CAN Kvim 6.1 be integrated into KDevelop by default in KDE 3.1

You'll have to wait for KDE 3.2, but yes it can:

http://www.freehackers.org/kvim/screenshots.html


By Philippe Fremy at Wed, 2002/09/04 - 5:00am

Wow, very nice. I've been waiting for this for a god-knows-how-long-time (especially vim & kmail).

It'll be in 3.2? Sometimes I hate the feature freeze though :)
Oh well, I'll at least encourage me to continue wasting precious processor cycles compiling CVS in the next few months.


By fault at Thu, 2002/09/05 - 5:00am

Hwoever Kmail, is the best if all you want is mail and only mail.

Wasn't there somewhere the idea of integrating KMail and KNode (at least partially) ? Has this been abandoned ?


By loopkin at Thu, 2002/09/05 - 5:00am

>Wasn't there somewhere the idea of integrating KMail and KNode (at least partially) ? Has this been abandoned ?

No, it's just that the main knode developers have no time. But there is code sharing happening, it is just going to take a while to complete the process.


By ac at Fri, 2002/09/06 - 5:00am

> integrating KMail and KNode

Please don't do this. It is just confusing and does not
bring any advantages.


By KDE User at Fri, 2002/09/06 - 5:00am

:: > integrating KMail and KNode

:: Please don't do this. It is just confusing and does not bring any advantages.

Are you kidding? Usenet is a message medium, as is KMail - you use filters based on pretty much the same headers, you archive certain message, track sent correspondance. Usenet is about shared discussion, as is email. Usenet and mailing lists can benefit from the exact same tools. KNode's biggest problem for me is the fact that it's a PITA to have seperate archive on topic for things that I am discussing on usenet and things I'm discussing in direct email - often with the smae people from usenet. Everytime a discussion is taken to private email, it's a shift in apps. Very annoying.

FWIW, I used Pine for many years, and had a slew of awk tools to manage my usenet and email. There are still some advantages to that configuration.

--
Evan


By Evan "JabberWok... at Fri, 2002/09/06 - 5:00am

I completely agree. USENET and email have always been tied together. It makes sense to merge kmail and knode. Perhaps it'll be easier when libkdenetwork is stabilized for kde3.2.

I personally like knode's interface better than kmail's, but I think it would easier to merge knode into kmail instead. It would NOT confuse users because Newsgroups+Email in the same application has been common in popular mail clients for a while. Look at both Outlook and Netscape (both 2.1/3.0/4.x/6.x/7.x mail clients)


By hear hear at Fri, 2002/09/06 - 5:00am

> Usenet is about shared discussion, as is email
I disagree, email is about posting mails. Discussions through email is just a side effect of how email works (the speed).

Email is normally not used for discussions by common people. Bringing applications together that does different things is just good for confusing the user, just look at Outlook, difficult to use and confusing. When people want to write a mail, they use the mail-writer. When people want to post a message to a discussion group, they use the discussion-message-poster :-).


By KDE User at Sat, 2002/09/07 - 5:00am

:: Email is normally not used for discussions by common people.

I'm not sure how to respond to that. Then what *is* email used for if not for discussions? The whole *point* of email is to discuss things in a back and forth written dialogue. I email my mom telling her I'll be missing Thanksgiving, but I'll be there for Christmas, she emails me back, telling me that I should show up early as my sister will be staying for a week before Christmas. Discussion. Mailing lists and usenet groups exist for people to do a one to many communication, and are functionally nearly identical. Why not have them be in the same application.

:: Bringing applications together that does different things is just good for confusing the user

Yes, but mailing lists and usenet are not only nearly identical, using the same terms and headers, etc, they also cross over quite a bit - many usenet threads are taken to private email and private email discussions move onto usenet groups. Not only are they functionally nearly identical, but they interrelate in a practical way extraordinarily closely.

--
Evan


By Evan "JabberWok... at Sat, 2002/09/07 - 5:00am

> Then what *is* email used for if not for discussions
I think my earlier post answer this. There is a difference between email and newsgroups. Of course, you know this difference also. People typically use email for what it was created for, and USENET for what that was created for.

> I email my mom...
I can assure you, that my mom gets quite confused about all the options in Oulook Express when she tries to set up her email.


By KDE User at Sun, 2002/09/08 - 5:00am

:: There is a difference between email and newsgroups.

Okay. What is this difference? I send messages and recieve messages. Let's take kde@lists.kde.com and comp.windows.x.kde for example. How are the two functionally different?

:: Of course, you know this difference also.

At the user level, I honestly don't see any difference whatsoever.

--
Evan


By Evan "JabberWok... at Sun, 2002/09/08 - 5:00am

Maybe I´m far out here or something but I always thought that email was for sending mail to _one_ person, this person might eventually respond. Newsgroups are for posting comments about some certain topic, comments that hundreds of people read and might also comment on.

> At the user level, I honestly don't see any difference whatsoever
Seriously?


By KDE User at Sun, 2002/09/08 - 5:00am

::> At the user level, I honestly don't see any difference whatsoever
:: Seriously?

Seriously. Mailing lists and usenet use the same terminology, concept - even the same headers. If you reply private on usenet, the message is sent via standard email as opposed to to the group. If you reply private on a mailing list, the message is sent via standard email as opposed to the list. Threading is handled by the client, messages are stored on the client (although they expire on the server if you wait too long on usenet, versus filling your mailbox to your quota in email).

From, To, Subject, CC - are you sending to one person or many? Your choice. Is it a list, a group, or a handful of recipients picked for that message from your addressbook. It doesn't matter. IMAP, POP3, NNTP, SMTP, UUCP, NFS spool - all are just ways of getting and sending messages comprised of a header and content to one or more recipients.

Ever use Pine?

--
Evan


By Evan "JabberWok... at Mon, 2002/09/09 - 5:00am

Reading your response, it sounds like you don't see any particular advantage of having these two internet services. Maybe you would also argue that we could skip newsgroups alltogether? Since they are practically the same, according to you.


By KDE User at Mon, 2002/09/09 - 5:00am

> Mailing lists.. use the same terminology, concept..
Yes, but not email as a whole. Only mailing lists, as I have written earlier.


By KDE User at Mon, 2002/09/09 - 5:00am

Does email not send messages TO recipents, CC other people, have a SUBJECT and responses are generally quoted with the subject tagged with an Re:?

Both email and usenet.

Do not good email clients use filtering, blacklists, folders, sent-messages folder, drafts folder, and an outbox folder?

Both email and usenet.

Usenet and email are quite interrelated and woven together. Applications use the same interfaces, the same editors, etc.

--
Evan


By Evan "JabberWok... at Mon, 2002/09/09 - 5:00am

So if they are all the same, then why do we need the newsgroups services at all? Maybe you would also argue that we trash the newsgroups alltogether?


By KDE User at Tue, 2002/09/10 - 5:00am

Quite a few newsgroups have, over the past ten years, moved to mailing lists. Most new groups, rather than face the public (read: spamable) forum of newsgroups have been created as mailing lists rather than newsgroups.

Me, I like newsgroups - the browsability, the fact that you can ignore 'em for a month and then come back (whereas mailing lists always get delivered *somewhere* filling up diskspace). You're not the first to suggest abandoning newsgroups because "mailing lists do everything they do and are more controllable". It's a pretty common observation that mailing lists and usenet groups are redundant. Still, there are communities on usenet that have been going strong for 15 years, and are pretty entrenched.

That fact is, usenet and mailing lists might be redundant (especially in the post-DNS era Internet when bangpaths aren't necessary - manual routing of mail made usenet much more attractive :) ), but people actively use both.

--
Evan


By Evan "JabberWok... at Tue, 2002/09/10 - 5:00am

> You're not the first to suggest abandoning newsgroups
Actually I don't really care, people who like them...please use them.

Anyway, you seem to think just like me that there is an isolated group using newsgroups, not "common people". I argue not to combine this with email software, it will give my grandmother (and 1000s others) an extra headache when she tries to configure her mail because of the extra options. And what do you gain? That some techies get some extra functionality. What is more KDE?


By KDE User at Wed, 2002/09/11 - 5:00am

Well, seen from one point of view, there is an isolated group using email. Some people just use the web and never get their email working. Usenet is a powerful tool, just like email is, and is functionally similar to email. Many people use it through Google Groups simply because good GUI newsgroup programs are rare (easier to find on *nix, but the majority of users don't like installing software and don't use *nix).

I started filling up a notebook with notes on a new, simplified communication tool for KDE using plugins for greater extendibility. I'm kicking around the idea of using python, and have been playing with PyQt and PyKDE. No idea if I'll get anywhere with it - I have little free time, and already have a big project I'm committed to that's sucking up my spare time.

--
Evan


By Evan "JabberWok... at Wed, 2002/09/11 - 5:00am

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