FEB
15
2003

KDE-CVS-Digest for February 14, 2003

This week, in the latest KDE-CVS-Digest read about the many improvements in the development tools. In KDevelop,
work continues on code completion and new code templates.
Quanta gets ktips and finishing polishes.
Kate, Cervisia, KBabel and Umbrello continue to get better.
Support for new XFree86 features are being implemented.
And nothing like a gathering of developers (report) to
improve the games.

Comments

Thanks, Derek. Good work, as usual.

Anything new on Keramik II? Anyone? :)


By Eike Hein at Sat, 2003/02/15 - 6:00am

Keramik II Screenshots:
http://garaged.homeip.net/screenshots/

--

DevCounter (http://devcounter.berlios.de/) - An open, free & independent developer pool
created to help developers find other developers, help, testers and new project members.


By Masato at Sat, 2003/02/15 - 6:00am

What is different in keramik II ?


By pnut at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

For example the current active tab is drawn so that it differs more from the inactive ones.


By Anonymous at Thu, 2003/02/20 - 6:00am

Need to change 7 by 14 here :
http://members.shaw.ca/dkite/index.html

Thanks a lot for this KDE CVS review. Now I can dream of what my KDE will be ;)


By Shift at Sat, 2003/02/15 - 6:00am

Fixed. Thanks.

Yes. 3.2 will be very good. Frankly, I'm amazed at the pace of development in so many different areas.

Derek


By Derek Kite at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

> Zack Rusin committed a change to kdepim/kmail

> Read an article from some dude whose
> biggest complain about KMail was that
> the spellchecker doesn't recognize the
> word KMail so make it recognize KMail
> and a couple of other key KDE components.

Shouldn't this go into KSpell rather than KMail?


By Jiffy at Sat, 2003/02/15 - 6:00am

I noticed that too. Why would KMail be a valid word in KMail but not KWord? The commit notes may have been inaccurate, but this certainly seems kindof wrong.


By ac at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

According to the diffs, it definately went into KMail. Judging by the code, the fix was obviously a quick hack. A more appropriate solution would have KSpell read KDE related words out of a text file. The file could be readily expanded and translated to other languages.

Another idea might be to parse all the internationalization strings in KDE, and put every single word into the spell checker's personalized word list. But then you would end up with all of the translators' typos and spelling errors.


By Jiffy at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

You may want to read this:
http://lists.kde.org/?l=kde-cvs&m=104466564420683&w=2

That address the same question.


By Sad Eagle at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

a little off-topic, but I'm wondering why kde (still) doesn't support syncing the address-book with syncml-devices.

There are quite a lot of devices already that support this open and free standard (like the SonyEricsson T68i and the P800), so I'm really wondering whether nobody has scratched their itch yet and written some software for that.

Also, how do Qtopia-Devices sync? The zaurus for example, does it use syncml or did trolltech come up with another new way on synchronizing contacts?

Someone in kde must have thought about this before, are there any documents or threads on a mailinglist about that? IIRC, even the kroupware project is only thinking about adding palm-sync support.


By Anonymous at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

You will see a syncing app in KDE 3.2. It is called KitchenSync. The OPIE-
project released a new version some days ago. You can help us by
testing this tarball:

http://www.handhelds.org/~zecke/kitchensync_alpha3.tar.gz

You'll find a HOWTO here:
http://handhelds.org/~zecke/kitchensync.html

For SyncML: There might be patent-issues with the implementation. The
SyncML-group is not answering to questions concerning the free
implemention.

__
Carsten Niehaus
Project OPIE- the Open Palmtop Integrated Environment
http://opie.handhelds.org | http://www.opie.info (german)
IRC: irc.freenode.net #opie #opie.de


By Carsten Niehaus at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

Thanks for your answer, Carsten!

You didn't mention it in your reply, but the screenshot on the howto-page implies that kitchensync can currently only sync with QTopia and OPIE-Devices. Is that true? If yes, I can't really test it, since I currently only have one WinCE-2.11 device and 'almost' one syncML-Device (the SE P800 once it is available, probably next week).


By Anonymous at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

I'm currently updating the HOWTO. In fact, I commited about 5 minutes ago.
KitchenSync is a "general-purpose"-application and is NOT limited to
KDE-apps on the Desktop-side and NOT limited to OPIE-apps (or
Zaurus/Sharp-apps). You only need a so called konnector (you could
say: a filter) to sync with other apps. We are currently working on syncing with
KAddressBook/KOrganizer and Evolution. The more help we get the more
filters will be written.

--
Carsten Niehaus
Project OPIE- the Open Palmtop Integrated Environment
http://opie.handhelds.org | http://www.opie.info (german)
IRC: irc.freenode.net #opie #opie.de


By Carsten Niehaus at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

Well i think there is a syncml client called multisync. can be found on multisync.sf.net not really shure though. At least they are implementing some p800 support.
Maybe asking them how they did that might be a solution to that problem.
btw. they are trying to write a opie sync. plugin and could need some help with that..(but that is quiet OT here).


By jk at Thu, 2003/03/06 - 6:00am

Hi,

From the information on the SyncML home pages on OpenAlliance (http://www.openmobilealliance.org/syncml/) it seems that there is no problem in using the current SyncML standard. There is only a reservation that they do not restict the alliance members in making IP of surrounding issues.

-------------- quote:
10) What are the SyncML licensing terms?

SyncMLmakes the reference code for the SyncML framework available to everyone. Vendors can download this code and use it in their implementations.

11) Can I resell or distribute the SyncML protocol?

The SyncML initiative encourages companies to market products that incorporate the SyncML Specification.

-------------------- end quote

http://www.openmobilealliance.org/syncml/introduction.html

regards birger....


By Birger Kollstrand at Tue, 2003/10/14 - 5:00am

In alpha3 when I compile something and hit an error, it just dumps all the info to the message window at the bottom, and stuff flies by. Thats kind of annoying. Why can't it just stop at the first error, and move your cursor in the editor where the error is? (Is there a way?)

Also, judging by the forums -- where there are scores of messages with 0 responses, it seems like there isn't much of an active community. I also get the impression that most KDE developers themselves don't actually use Kdevelop. Is that true? Whatever the case, as someone new to KDE/QT stuff I'm finding it rather frustrating to figure out what to use, where to go, best tools to use etc. Anyone got any advice for someone who knows there way around C, C++ and programming in general but not with Linux/QT/KDE inparticular? :)


By Anonymous at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

1) Turn on Program -> Options -> Make -> abort on first error
2) Press F4 to go to each error / warning

Not many kde developers use kdevelop because they're already used to vim/emacs/whatever. Have a look at kdesdk, there are useful development tools / scripts there.


By Hamish Rodda at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

That kind of works, but the cursor isn't adjusted, and more scroll is outputed than necessary.

I don't suppose you know if there is any kind of "Using emacs as a development environment" sort of thing out there? A big plus if it includes KDE specific info.


By Anonymous at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

If the cursor isn't adjusted you might be hitting the bug where opening a new file sometimes doesn't get the right cursor location due to timings (a kate fix is in the works).

kdesdk includes scripts for use with emacs under kdesdk/scripts. That's all I know...


By Hamish Rodda at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

Thanks!


By Anonymous at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

Are they installed if I have executed "make install" in kdesdk? How do I use them?


By Erik at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

Ask on irc.freenode.net, #kde-devel -- I really don't know the answer, because Kate does everything I need.


By Hamish Rodda at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

I'm getting very excited by the pace that konqueror is improving.
Nevertheless, I'm disappointed that konqueror (even in 3.1) still has issues rendering many common web sites (eg. espn.com)...rather, I'm disappointed that it won't render them like mozilla, or IE...
Is it a konq philosophy to not render certain pages as the site designer intended it to be rendered, just because perhaps the designer is not properly following standards.... or is it a case where the konq team has not gotten around to making certain sites conform to mozilla/IE rendering.. or perhaps do I have the konq settings screwed up (I am using it on a red hat machine)
I'd love to hear from someone who knows more than I.


By pnut at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

I don't know what you want. The site you mentioned renders just fine here (I don't see any graphical glitch). If you think there's something wrong contribute yourself something to fix it (eg. by posting a bug report at bugs.kde.org and describing what you actually don't like. Just saying you don't like Konqueror doesn't render like Mozilla/IE makes people wonder why you use Konqueror at all) otherwise you'll be ignored as a possible troll.


By Datschge at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

You are right, I wasn't descriptive...
actually konqueror handles the top espn.com page just right. But some major subsections, for example : http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/scoreboard , don't render as the site designer intended (compare konqueror to mozilla on this page)
I'd prefer konqueror because of its integration with the desktop, but I'd like it more if it could render my favorite site the way its designers intended it to.
It wouldn't be that big of a deal, but for the fact that it's one of the most visited sites on the web. Also because of that fact, I certainly would not be the first to mention these espn specific problems to konqueror developers.

Actually...there are prob pages that konqueror handles better than mozilla and IE...So I'll prob just be patient with the progress, and assume that this issue will be handled with the safari merges...


By pnut at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

> actually konqueror handles the top espn.com page just right. But some major subsections, for example : http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/scoreboard , don't render as the site designer intended (compare konqueror to mozilla on this page)

Perhaps that is because the site designer is a bit of a putz? I took a look at this based on your comment and it did drop the header on top of the menu, however I can tell you it renders fine now. This is not the fault of konqueror, but of the moronic Javascript that only looks for IE, Netscape or Mac. They select style sheets with Javascript for the browser to compensate for minor differences in rendering. A grand idea to sell a more expensive package to ESPN with for a few pixels here and there. However the idiots forgot to leave a fallback style sheet for unrecognized browsers. Their code is commented US patent pending though. I'n't that special?

Usually these errors are checking for compatability and checking browsers instead of if they reconize DOM. If they must use Javascript they should check to see if the browser reconizes DOM and if it does issue the script. That leaves you with Netscape, DOM browsers and category 3, unable to render.

Konqueror has some tools from kdeaddons. From Konq's menu select Tools>Change Browser Identification and select probably about anything else and it should work. Konqueror is fully capable of rendering here. Why don't you write them. I don't have the Javascipt in front of me but I know you can ask a browser if it recognizes DOM.

BTW browser identification can be set per site. Don't change it indescriminately as it will skew site logs and look like there is less of Konqueror out there. Webmasters should get smart and check for DOM recogntion. Feel free to contact them when they don't.


By Eric Laffoon at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

Eric,

Could you check out one of the two bugs that are open for rendering issues with KHTML? There has been a bug in KHTML since the 3.1rcX days that has forced me to not want to use konqueror. The bugs can be found here:

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=52993
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54695

Thank you very much.

Bret.


By Bret Baptist at Wed, 2003/02/19 - 6:00am

This is a msn site (seee slashdot for opera/msn problem).
If you change the browser configuration to IE konqueror renders the page fine, which makes me believe that you get a bad style sheet if you identify yourself as konqueror user.


By XavierXeon at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

excellent! this is a solution for the moment


By pnut at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

actually, it is not a real solution. This will simply encourage M$ to continue its attrocious behaviour, and furthermore will make you show up as an IE in web statistics, furthering the cause of those who say that they don't need to make their websites standard compliant.


By anon at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

Some pages (including NBA Scorecard) have a "report bug" link at the bottom of the page. While that link itself does not work in Konqueror you can use

http://dynamic.espn.go.com/espn/bugs

to report bugs with that web site.


By Anonymous at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

"Is it a konq philosophy to not render certain pages as the site designer intended it to be rendered?"

Yes. And it should be the philosophy of EVERY browser to do the same. The web is not a page oriented word processor. Everyone has a different screen resolution, monitor size, browswer window size, custom stylesheets, color depth, etc. You simply cannot make a webpage display identically for every user.

Konqueror cannot guess how the designers want their pages to be displayed. So instead it uses HTML and CSS to figure it out. If the designer is not using proper standard HTML and CSS, then there's no way for konqueror to figure out what is wanted. Mozilla can handle it for one reason and one reason only: they emulate the b0rken and standards trashing Internet Exploder.


By David Johnson at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

Cool, new XFree86 features, I suppose that means customizable cursors, finally.
I'm quite tired of those ugly black-and-white cursor. ;-(
Konqueror has really grown up to the best file-manager I know.
I like the fact that you can use tabs not only for webpages
but for file-management as well. This is really a step ahead in comparison
to other file-management-programs (you know which...)
The only major bug left is the fact that you cannot open two Konqueror
windows and use cut/copy and paste to move/copy a file between them.
I wonder why this still doesn't work in 3.1... Well, perhaps nobody
else uses Konqueror like this. But I guess it should work, because
it works within the same Konqueror window.


By Damon at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

Mmmmmm. It works for me. I'm using Gentoo with kde 3.1 and works between two independent konqi windows and between two tabs in the same konqi window. Maybe a vendor bug ?


By x at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

Are you sure you have a real 3.1 and not one of the RCs? A bug with the same symptoms was fixed on 2002/12/08; and this works fine for me in HEAD.


By Sad Eagle at Sun, 2003/02/16 - 6:00am

Well, thanks to all who answered.
I was wondering why it worked for all of you
but not on even one PC I installed KDE 3.1 on.
Now, I found out that it doesn't work only
if Konqueror is in the "detailed folder view" (or
whatever it is called in the English version). If I
use "icon view" I can copy and paste.
Unfortunately I set this to be my default view.
So, I guess this bug will be fixed someday. At
least I can switch to a different view temporarily
as a workaround.


By Damon at Mon, 2003/02/17 - 6:00am

Hmm, seems to work fine with the detail list view for me, too.
Could you please describe exactly what you're doing, step-by-step, and what's going wrong?


By Sad Eagle at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

Strange, well I try to describe this in full detail.

I have a Home icon in the taskbar
which runs:

kfmclient openProfile filemanagement

I click on this Icon, Konqueror runs maximized and in
detailed list view in my main home directory (I saved this
to be the default setting)
I click on this Icon again. A second Konqueror window
opens and becomes active. The first Konq window is
behind and only visible in the taskbar.
I right click on a file in my home directory and
select "Copy" from the menu.
I click on the first Konq window in my taskbar. The first
window becomes active. I right click on an empty space (not on a file)
within the detailed list view and...

The context menu opens but "Paste" is disabled/grey!

Does nobody else experience this? The rest of KDE 3.1 works perfectly fine.
But this does not work. Not in KDE 3.0 either. Not with any standard SuSE 8.1
installation on lots of PCs in our company I tried it.


By Damon at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

Works here, too. Using Debian 3.0r1 (woody) KDE 3.1 packages.

It does seem a bit silly to do this, since you can just drag-n-drop the files if you have two windows open. I guess if you're running at a low resolution or want to cut/copy/paste between windows on different desktops it makes sense, though.


By Blue at Mon, 2003/02/17 - 6:00am

Do the KDE developers plan to fix annoing memory leak in kicker (http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49215 )?


By Andrey V. Panov at Mon, 2003/02/17 - 6:00am

Vote it up on bugs.kde.org... but im betting this is not a leak in kicker but in an applet, since i have yet to ever see it.

cheers
-ian reinhart geiser


By ian reinhart geiser at Mon, 2003/02/17 - 6:00am

But I use only applets distributed with KDE. Did anybody among KDE developers run KDE for days and check its memory usage?


By Andrey V. Panov at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

No because it crashes ... just like Gnome har har har ....

Maybe when these projects get to the point where the developers think they look OK they can start going for stability (a la Emacs) and performance (a la BSD file system)

I remember running one instance of Emacs (lisp remember - the memore use grows naturally) for almost 2 years. I also remember a most visited and used FS/OS in the world at freebsd.org with ISO image FTP downloads and "make world"'s over and over again ....

Would that that sort of quality make its way to the desktop (and also attract top notch grafists and designers to beautify it). How many more years must we wait?


By NONInstaller-of-KDE at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

How long before you contribute?


By Me at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

Hey non-installer ... stop waiting now:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/

As for Emacs-like stability in a DE well uhh yeah that's the goal ... with KDE as version 3.1 and Emacs at 21.3 (**21.3!!) there's a reason Emacs is "stable".

BTW ... in case you hadn't noticed KDE is only at version 3.1 and can almost (I said *almost*) do everything Emacs can do !! ;-)

Plus KDE is scriptable via dcops and python (and others) ... Emacs limits you to Lisp (e-lisp at that). So there!! :-D


By NONWaiter at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

> Maybe when these projects get to the point where the developers think they look OK they can start going for stability (a la Emacs) and performance (a la BSD file system)

Maybe you could stop trolling and talk out of an orafice that has teeth? I'm happy to use Quanta+ as an example. A crash in CVS HEAD is rare and in proper setups release versions don't. Memory leaks have been relentlessly chased down and our Parser was a performance problem. In 3.0 it was slow, in 3.1 it was faster and in 3.2 it's finally near complete. Operations that could take several seconds on a 10,000 line file now are in milliseconds. In fact the entire file can be parsed between keystrokes in most cases. We are working on the final node localization optimizations. All of this has been done with a barage or requests for WYSIWYG and more which this was needed for first. We are not waiting to complete our feature set to do things right as you suggst and we have produced less features to be architectureally excellent. These speed optimizations have been done while watching CPU cycles and keeping them to a minimum. We make no excuses for quality and speed. we don't have to.

In short, if you speak from an interface nearer to your brain you are likely to make more sense. More politely, if you do your due dilligence you will see how erroneous your ASSumptions are. ;-)


By Eric Laffoon at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

I have a few clients open, via X or remote VNC. The longest running is 3 weeks, running 3.0.4. The shortest is running head from 3 days ago. I am sure the problem exists but probibly only in your unique config.

My advice after looking at the bug report is to try to provide some more information, maby look for duplicate problems, and then maby see if you can provide what exactly is leaking memory.

I only run KDE applets myself, plus quite a few i wrote for myself.

Cheers
-ian reinhart geiser


By Ian Reinhart Geiser at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

> I have a few clients open, via X or remote VNC. The longest running is 3 weeks, running 3.0.4

Linux marvin 2.4.19-4GB #1 Fri Sep 13 13:14:56 UTC 2002 i586 unknown
10:27am up 114 days, 53 min, 5 users, load average: 0.04, 0.06, 0.01

Box is constantly running KDE. During that time KDE has been restarted few times only due to it being updated (now running suse-packaged 3.1). Zarro crashes, no oddities, everything just works like a trains WC.


By jmk at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

Can you check the memory consumption of kicker? Is it approximately constant or growing with time?


By Andrey V. Panov at Tue, 2003/02/18 - 6:00am

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