JUN
21
2003

KDE-CVS-Digest for June 20, 2003

This week in KDE-CVS-Digest: CD burning application K3b begins to gain DVD writing functionality, continued fixes and improvements
to KWin, more on the binary compatibility debate, bug fixes, and more. Enjoy.

Comments

Hello,

Very soon K3b will be slapping Nero's bald head in a mocking manner. It's a joy to see young apps mature in functionality, power and stability. It's synonymous to watching a young weak seedling grow into a formidable oak tree. Good job! :-)

Regards,

Mystilleef


By Mystilleef at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

what I don't like about K3b is that their logo bar in the middle takes up half of my 800*600 screen. Hope they'll remove that it's really annoying.
other than that, great app!


By bob at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

Any reason why you chose to use such a small resolution?
Besides that I agree that the logo bar should be possible to hide optionally for those who like to hide it for whatever reason, there's no wish report for it at bugs.kde.org so far though so one should create one.


By Datschge at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

I've old monitor. It works good, but it can display screen up to 1280x1024, but on refresh rate 60 Hz. So I select 800x600x85 Hz. What's wrong? IMHO KDE will use hardware resources in reasonable way. (In other words, why I need to upgrade so often?)


By gray at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

Well you can probably run at 912x684 at around 80Hz, which should still be confortable, and be big enough for any KDE app's fat UI to not be a problem.


By David Walser at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

Just btw the cvs version of K3B allows you to turn the logo bar off. It was a welcome option for me, as it will be to many others it seems. And yeah, K3B is great. When I used Windows I used Nero, and when I first started using Linux I was very unhappy till I found K3B, which is everything I ever wanted in a burning program.


By lrandall at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Just go to settings->show document header, and disable it. you may want to turn off the media player as well.


By Peter Backlund at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Actually, many people in poor countries still use 800x600 resolution. And even college students that can't pay themselves a new monitor do.

So I think it's still too early to consider 800x600 outdated, and a smaller logo should be considered. Plus I happen to hate big logos taking so much screen space :(


By Pawn at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

it shouldn't matter WHAT resolution you run. GUI layout should be dynamic. And huge logos have no place in the middle of an app, anyway; that's what about boxes, docs, and websites are for.


By Lee at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Hear, hear!

The resolution I use is MY choice, and not the app's designer.

K3b Setup is the worst offender I've ever seen.

Please, use moderation with logos.

Cheers,

Carlos Cesar


By ccp at Mon, 2003/06/30 - 5:00am

> Actually, many people in poor countries still
> use 800x600 resolution

In rich countries too, for example my old iBook here in Switzerland ;-)


By Stefan Heimers at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Hey, I buy a new $3000 desktop every 1-2 years, but I see myself staying at 800x600 forever. Maybe it's because I've been computing in the 80x25-char console interface for a decade, but for me it's a matter of principle: you shouldn't need higher rez except for quality games (which I'm not into). When you spend 16 hours a day reading / writing text, higher resolution only increases eye strain.


By Alex at Sun, 2005/03/13 - 6:00am

So you still use a 8-pins dot-matrix printer for printouts, too? Not a snazzy, lovely 600dpi laserprinter? Because if the size of the glyph stays the same, the number of dots that make up the glyph are important.

Me, I've got a 1600x1200 15" panel on my laptop -- 133 dpi is nice, no laser printer quality, but every glyph looks printed compared to any screen I've used before.


By Boudewijn at Sun, 2005/03/13 - 6:00am

Where do you get glyphs that are big enough?


By ca at Mon, 2005/03/14 - 6:00am

As long as you don't lie to X11 by forcing it to use a wrong dpi setting, everything works out of the box. A 10pt font will have the right dimensions no matter what, if only the dpi setting is correct.


By Boudewijn Rempt at Mon, 2005/03/14 - 6:00am

Those using old laptops can't increase the screen resolution. My laptop is 3 and a half years old and does 1024x768, but when I bought it many similar laptops were limited to 800x600.

Also, I find VNC (or Xnest) sessions can be more comfortable with a screen size of 800x600 because it fits within a 1024x768 screen.


By cbcbcb at Mon, 2003/06/23 - 5:00am

Almost ontopic: Any ideas as of how to convert a Nero .nrg to something you can burn under 'nix? Preferably using k3b, of course.

Also, by the way: Why does k3b have to be installed in a specific directory (namely, the one kde is installed in) to work? This is mention in the last faq, but it doesn' t say why it is so. I would like to have k3b in /usr/local/k3b, and that doesn't work.


By mr. Anonymous Coward at Mon, 2003/06/23 - 5:00am

.nrg is in ISO format. Just rename the file to .iso and it'll work.


By Rayiner Hashem at Wed, 2003/06/25 - 5:00am

No it's wrong !!!!


By czara1 at Sun, 2004/08/29 - 5:00am

Convert NRG to ISO with nrg2iso from http://gregory.kokanosky.free.fr/v4/linux/nrg2iso.en.html


By Sander Jonkers at Tue, 2004/09/21 - 5:00am

Thanks... it's also in kubuntu (and friends), so an apt-get install nrg2iso works fine.


By Evan "JabberWok... at Wed, 2006/10/25 - 5:00am

>>Very soon K3b will be slapping Nero's bald head in a mocking manner

First of _all_, people have issues with a 800x600 resolution issue here and you are talking about "slapping Nero's bald head".

yeah - very soon now..


By AC at Mon, 2003/06/23 - 5:00am

Some people were complaining, again, that major features were missing in this report. Maybe it would be a good idea to have a keyword in the commit message like DIGEST?


By Tim Jansen at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

Drop me a line if there is something I missed. It definitely is possible.

Another factor this week was my ISP mail server was borked for most of thursday, so there was at least a day's worth of commits that didn't even get looked at. I think there were 250 messages from kde-cvs when the mail started flowing again. They will be included in next week.

Again, complain vociferously if something is missing. Please.

Derek


By Derek Kite at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

Derek,

when you add something to the Digest, could you add a small changelog to the top or the bottom of the page, or highlight new entries with a small icon in the table of contents and in the entries itself? Or post details in the comments section? Reason: I already read it and don't want to read everything again just to find out what's new in there. Yes, I'm that lazy! :)

Well - just a suggestion. :)


By Eike Hein at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

You lost me there. Do you mean from when I upload the draft version to when I announce the finished one?

Derek


By Derek Kite at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Nope, sorry :). I'm referring to the exchange between you and Tim Jansen. According to Tim, the intitial publication of this weeks Digest lacked coverage about some neat things - you encouraged him to point 'em out to you so you'd be able to add them. For me as reader, that means there's a strong possibility that I missed something because I read an earlier revision. So maybe there's need for an in-document-changelog?


By Eike Hein at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

I won't add items to an exising digest. If there are things I missed, they will be included in the next week. The only things I change are errors or mis-attributions.

Derek


By Derek Kite at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Ah :). Imaginary problem solved, then. Thanks!


By Eike Hein at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Derek,

in lieu of a DIGEST CVS keyword, can we just CCMAIL you in the log if we think something is worthy of the digest?

regrads,
Jason


By LMCBoy at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Good idea. It should catch my attention :-}

Derek


By Derek Kite at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Thanks a lot dude! I thought there wouldn't be any for this week and I was dissapointed and now I just woke up and found one here =) THANK YOU!


By Alex at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

I'm especially glad that K3b will get DVD support, that will rock!

THough its dissapointing to know taht Konqueror is now a whopping 10% slower at displaying JPEGS (the most widely used image format on the entire web!!!). THIS IS A MAJOR SLOWDOWN, I hope it will become faster.

Honestyly I couldn't even notice the problem in JPEG rendering, it looked the same in Mozilla and Konqueror to me.

Check out the bug report yourself.
http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60000


By Mario at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

It doesn't matter Mario, you probably wouldn't notice the difference in rendering time. Anyway the bottleneck is the network performance.

Check out the code, see if you can improve it.


By mxcl at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

Sorry, i don't know how to code. But, how could I not notice it, 10% sounds like a big decrease in image rendering.


By Mario at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

10% is inconsequential if the rendering time is 12ms. I have no idea how fast JPEGs render, but I'm sure someone more knowledgable would confirm that it's fast enough not to worry about.

Thanks,

Max


By mxcl at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

using konqueror from cvs (kde 3.1.90),i just tried the link u provided on your bug report
http://www.emutalk.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12952 and I can tell u it's displaying the jpeg at normal speed as far as I can tell it was just as fast as mozilla.

cheers,
pat


By pat at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Would this be easy to do http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60202 it seems so easy and just makes so much sense. I really hope it will make it in 3.2.

Be sure to check out other wishlist/bugs of mine if you agree with me.
http://tinyurl.com/ef3m


By Alex at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

Alex, I see you just keep doing it: please stop posting long links here.


By Datschge at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am


By Anonymous at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

I am amazed everyday at what some people can come up with! That's a great idea.

Check out the new url! http://tinyurl.com/ef3m =)


By Alex at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

Why? I'm just curious; what's the problem with "long links"?


By ac at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

they make the width of the page really wide, so you have to scroll back and forth to read every post...it's pretty annoying.


By LMCBoy at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

BC (Binary Compatability) for libraries has already been achieved with another operating system that was very popular a few years back, namely the Amiga Operating System. The Amiga's OS used a technique of using a jump table at the beginning of a library of which stayed constant with new routines being added to the end of the table.

This would be a great idea for the KDE libs, it would require breaking BC one more time, but after that no more.


By Ian Ventura-Whiting at Sat, 2003/06/21 - 5:00am

Do you have any links for information about this? What are the penalties for using such a system?


By mxcl at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

The only problem was when some of the demo crews and some games decided to hit the amiga's hardware directly or use some "internal use" library code instead of using the published routines.

All programs that were written correctly (useing the published library routines) worked on all versions of the operating system. The people who developed the libraries could add extra (optional) parameters to library functions and were able to extend a libraries functionality by adding new routines that were linked at the end of the library jump table.


By Ian Ventura-Whiting at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

It was great, but it was before C++ came along.

For languages like C, it's perfect. Windows used to do it the same way, btw....

But KDE is exporting C++ interfaces, which have each their own virtual tables...

Yours, Kay


By Debian User at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Such a thing is already done in KDE with the wonderful powers of ELF.

Where Amiga adds a "jump table at the beginning of the library", ELF makes a relocation table. Hence, KDE can add new functions without trouble. The problem is in fact that the size of structures when we add virtual methods.

Let me describe:

C++:
class Foo
{
virtual void setValue(int c);
};

Same thing in C:
typedef struct Foo
{
void (*setValue)(Foo *, int);
}

so, now, sizeof(Foo) is equal to sizeof(void*), in the case of C; C++ may not necessarily add the virtual-table inline with the class object itself (so you might not get too much excitement by testing this out).

This means, that when you do the following:
C++:
Foo * foo = new Foo;

and in C:
Foo *foo = (Foo*)malloc(sizeof(Foo));

The compiler can identify the sizeof the class Foo at compile time (sizeof(void*)), so it actually writes
Foo * foo = (Foo*)malloc(4); (in a 32 bit process)

When someone adds another virtual to class Foo in libfoo.so, the sizeof(Foo) increases by a notch. That's no big deal, the problem when an application that uses class Foo, it calls malloc(4), even though it should be calling malloc(8).


By Charles Samuels at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

That is the "fragile base class" problem which comes up whenever you use gnu C++ to create shared libraries. BeOS solved this problem by just adding some spare virtual functions to classes that they wanted to extend in the future. It is a hack, but it works to preserve binary compatibility.

And by the way, adding virtual functions does not increase the size of the object, it merely increases the size of the virtual method table. You can have an object with thousands of virtual methods that uses just a few bytes per instance.


By Androgynous Howard at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

Very interesting idea. KDE could use that as well.
Currently KDE is using the virtual_hook() methods in all classes that can be used to make non-virtual methods behave like a virtual...


By Tim Jansen at Sun, 2003/06/22 - 5:00am

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