KDE-CVS-Digest for August 29, 2003

In this week's Digest: It's been a very busy week. Some new applications: Knot,
a service location server, Kickme, a lightweight DCOP messenger and event viewer,
an LDAP kioslave, KWiFiManager, for monitoring wireless cards,
the new Plastik widget style,
an SNMP plugin for KSim.
aRts adds
Media Application Server output support.
KDevelop adds Haskell and Mozilla XUL language support.
KStars supports electrical telescope focusers. Security fixes for KDM.
KAddressBook has phone calling support.
Spell checking support in KOffice is complete, and improved elsewhere. The
KitchenSync plugin is added to Kontact.
KOrganizer printing system is improved.
Safari render_layer code is ported to KHTML.
More new CrystalSVG icons. Improvements for running KDE on laptops. And a huge number of bugfixes.

Dot Categories: 

Comments

by wup (not verified)

Ah, finally some REAL nice crystalized icons for those arrow thingies!

Thank you Everaldo, I wish there were more artists like you working on KDE and other Linux programs.

You rock!

by Alex (not verified)

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=6240&vote=good&tan=7705...

I think KDE should actually install these when it installs ebcause these are AWESOME!

by LMCBoy (not verified)

>If you sue KDE

You listening, McBride?? ;)

by Alex (not verified)

meant to say use ;p

by ac (not verified)

Please provide slides in PDF or HTML (rather than kpr or kwd!). :-)

by Tom (not verified)

I thought it was a KDE design rule that MDI wasn't used, and yet it seems Kate has "gone KMDI". Does anyone know exactly how this has been implemented? Personally I think using tabs is the best solution, most coherent with the rest of KDE and other editors. One think I like about KDE is its rejection of MDI.

by Henrique Pinto (not verified)

Tabs are one kind of MDI.

And yes, MDI is now allowed in KDE, though not in the sense many people know it. You won't see "windows inside windows" if you dislike it, tabs are the default MDI mode. Because of that, you'll barely note any difference, since lots of KDE apps are already "MDI like" (consider Konqueror, Kate, Konsole...)

There's now a library named KMDI in kdelibs to take care of all MDI stuff.

by Jan (not verified)

MDI isn't as "evil" as it used to be.
Fortunately a lot more sanity has come to this issue.
One of the arguments against MDI was that you
cannot spread your toolboxes and stuff over multiple desktops
and freely arrange them. This is no longer true as you
can undock windows from a modern MDI app and spread them
all over your desktops.
To sum it up you still can:
1) Run multiple instances each with one document (SDI)
2) Undock windows and spread them over your desktop
3) Use tabs instead of windows

And of course you can use it like "evil" Windows-style MDI ;-)
But you don't have to. So I think this shouldn't be such
a controversial issue anymore. Sorry to all those who have lost
their relatives in this war against MDI. It's over, I'm afraid.

by anon (not verified)

The good thing about the KMDI classes are that they can be automagically switch from SDI (different kate windows), controlled MDI (e.g, tabs or kate's old interface), real MDI (uh, MS style MDI), and IDEAL-MODE (a combination of controlled MDI and real MDI :)))

The default is controlled MDI, but can be set by user.

by Rayiner Hashem (not verified)

IDEAL mode is absolutely awesome! Its wonderful for programs like KDevelop. OSS doesn't innovate --- yeah right!

by anon (not verified)

Fully agreed. I can't wait for gideon to be released with KDE 3.2 too :)

(also kate is now becoming more and more of a lite-IDE, which is nice too.. )

by Ed Moyse (not verified)

Actually I'm pretty sure that the IDEAL mode was copied from commercial software. It was a while ago that I actively read Kdevelop mailing lists, but I think it came from some java IDE or something? Anyway, I'm just nit-picking. ;-)

by Rayiner Hashem (not verified)

Maybe, but I was more referring to bulding it into the central MDI system, thus making it available for all MDI apps.

by anon (not verified)

It comes from IntellJ IDEA, afaik.

by anon (not verified)

It seems that KDE is on the wrong path and if that wont stop it will go down the drain sometimes. Why add such bloat just because you can ?

by Aaron J. Seigo (not verified)

s/just because you can/just because large numbers of our users need and\/or want it/

the KMDI stuff should actually reduce bloat since individual apps won't have to implement their own MDI, and it should help usability by providing (as) sane (as can possibly be) standard implementations...

by me (not verified)

George Staikos, thank you for standing up against this and deleting those comments!

I find that comment very offensive (or, well, stupid) and it's obvious that they would have caused a LOT of discussion.

Please make sure that religion & politics stay out of KDE, it can't be any good.

by foo (not verified)

Damn right.

That Neil guy is a nut.

http://www.hakubi.us/ridge/

What's at the above link has gotta be the saddest piece of software I've ever seen!

by Jan (not verified)

ROTFL! If it wasn't such a sad issue.

by Dan (not verified)

But isn't one of the virtues of an apolitical, tolerant, collaborative project like KDE that its contributors are NOT hounded based on their beliefs?

For example, we all know ESR's attitude towards guns, yet this belief of his ought not to play a role in how we receive his ideas.

by aleXXX (not verified)

Well, yes.
But, if a developer adds "Thanks to the us army ... liberty, justice,.. blah..." to a KDE app, it's no longer apolitical.

Bye
Alex

by Tim Jansen (not verified)

No one complained about Neil's (and Capzilla's) 'The Amazing US' blog, even if it probably does not represent the majority of KDE contributors.

People complained when he stated in his opinion in his apps, and quite obviously did so only to annoy the people who disagreed with him.

by Neil Stevens (not verified)

Actually, Christoph Cullmann whined to KDE e.V. about Rob Kaper's comments on his personal site.

by CE (not verified)

But it seems that Rob was mistaken, while the action of somebody else was serious.

by Aaron J. Seigo (not verified)

and it was quickly retorted that, while the blog entry in question was highly offensive to many, it isn't the e.V.'s place to intervene in such matters. it was sorted out between the people involved to a quick and satisfactory (for them) end.

by Guillaume Laurent (not verified)

ESR has "attitudes" on several other issues beyond guns, which IMHO *should* play a role in how we receive his ideas. Have you ever read his blog ?

Try this :

http://armedndangerous.blogspot.com/2002_09_15_armedndangerous_archive.h...

for a start.

by CE (not verified)

That's very very sad.
I wonder who are the barbarian, if i see such narrow-minded things.

by Roberto Alsina (not verified)

Well, ESR solution to everything involves a gun.

Possible situation:

Hey, that nail caught my girlfriend's silk stockings?

ESR answer:

Hey, let me use my revolver's stock to make the nail's head even with the wooden surface.

And just for kicks:

Simpsons situation:

Hey, my basketball is on the roof!

Here, Lisa, let me handle it! _BANG_

by Rayiner Hashem (not verified)

Read the second one. The guy is a complete wacko! As a Muslim, and Indian, and a Westerner* I'm offended on all three counts. But whatever. I love Open Source and respect his contribution to it. In the end, you have to make up your own mind, and realize that while some people will agree with you on some things, nobody will agree with you on everything. If you agree with something, don't stop supporting it just because its supporters have a different agenda on other issues.

*> The weird background is a result of being Bangladeshi, living in the United States since age 5, and attending English schools since preschool.

by Guillaume Laurent (not verified)

I certainly won't stop supporting Open Source because of him, but I don't recognize him as a community leader.

by Roberto Alsina (not verified)

Well, ESR's contribution to free software is fetchmail.

And fetchmail sucks. A lot.

Unless we count sophomoric essays as contributions, of course.

by anon (not verified)

he also wrote the kernel configuration system used in linux 1.2 to 2.4..

by Roberto Alsina (not verified)

No, he didn't.

Here is ESR's entry in the kernel CREDITS file:

N: Eric S. Raymond
E: [email protected]
W: http://www.ccil.org/~esr/home.html
D: ncurses library co-maintainer
D: terminfo master file maintainer
D: Distributions HOWTO editor
D: Instigator, FHS standard
D: Keeper of the Jargon File and curator of the Retrocomputing Museum
D: Author, Emacs VC and GUD modes
S: 22 South Warren Avenue
S: Malvern, Pennsylvania 19355
S: USA

As you can see, no mention of the kernel config system.

No idea how current this is, but I doubt it is pre-1.2 ;-)
Had he done what you said he did, he would make sure it was mentioned everywhere. Of course, I may be wrong.

He did write a kernel config tool (CML2), which wasn't all that good:

http://kt.zork.net/kernel-traffic/kt20030413_213.html#8
http://kt.zork.net/kernel-traffic/kt20020520_167.html#3

It was never included in a production kernel, and eventually dropped:

http://kt.zork.net/kernel-traffic/kt20020617_171.html#1

He did throw a tantrum about it, though.

by Eric Laffoon (not verified)

> Well, ESR's contribution to free software is fetchmail.

> And fetchmail sucks. A lot.

> Unless we count sophomoric essays as contributions, of course.

You might have a point, except ironically it's "The Cathederal and the Bazaar" that had one of the biggest impacts on free software of anything, unless you count the phrase "open source". If you read "Under the Radar" about Bob Young and the early days of Red Hat you see where he managed to have a positive impact on Intel and a number of other companies that made a big difference in the acceptance and growth of Linux in critical ways, as well as important corporate involvements. He cites "The Cathederal and the Bazaar" as the big factor that drove him forward. I've seen a number of project leaders make the same claim.

So while ESR may not have contributed substantial code, and you may not be all the impressed with his essays, at least one of them played a pivital role in shaping the thinking of a number of people who advanced OSS.

by Roberto Alsina (not verified)

The Cathedral and the Bazaar is his best essay, and I would grade it as adequate, if a bit pretentious (all that amateur socio-anthropo-whateverologist stuff).

It has, however, a few defects that don't let me be that generous:

a) It has been post-facto made into an essay about free software. It isn't. It contrasts gcc and (fetchmail|linux kernel). ESR is not the one who did this, of course. So he is not to blame. But it hurts the essay.

b) It has aged really badly. Basically, it took the two examples the author saw, and ran with it, generalizing like crazy. Nowadays we can all see numerous (much more than at that early time) schemes for free software development CatB didn't even consider (KDE is one, Quanta is another ;-)

Consider for example, a leaderless group like KDE. You won't find anything like it even imagined in the essay. My guess is that ESR's ego wouldn't let him imagine such a thing could exist.

Again, one can hardly blame him for not imagining what would happen. Futurology will always be better done in the future. But it does mean the essay is antiquated.

c) It's written in annoying egocentrical style. A quote:

"It's not a coincidence that I'm an energetic extrovert who enjoys working a crowd and has some of the delivery and instincts of a stand-up comic."

d) Consequences are not a reflection of the quality of the work.

Columbus embarked on his first trip because he had read a work that miscalculated the earth's size by 30% (Plotinus?). Had he read the (obviously better) number by Erathostenes, he wouldn't have done it, since a trip that long (think, Atlantic+Pacific+a little and not in the shortest path) was not practical at the time.

Does it mean that the bad measurement was good? No, it only means Columbus got lucky.

In this case, it's just that an almost-adequate essay impressed a young man to put his money in the wrong place (remember what business plans Red Hat had? ;-) and much later, by luck (IPO at the right time) and work and whatever, after changing direction A LOT, the company became semi-profitable (with a sunk investment of what? 50M?).

Does that mean CatB was any good as inspiration for corporate involvement? Hell no.

by Kitty (not verified)

I don't think hes a nut or anything, people have different opinions. However, Id on't think KDE should have any political or religious affilations lsited in it's software, it can offend many people.

In addition changelogs should list only DIRECT contributors to the project, otherwise it will confuse developers trying to get the hold of people working on the project and users.

Only people with these contributions should be listed
http://kde.org/support

Everyoen else does not belong in the application's change log. Just imagine if I tahnke dmy local supermarket for giving me acess to such great and cheap food, my friends for supporting me, starbuccks for helping me stay awake, air so I can breathe, my teachers who have taught me programming, my favorite authrs for inspiring me, my friend because he introduced me to Linux and KDE ETC. THEY HAVE NO PLACE HERE!

I HOPE KDE DEVELOPERS WILL UNDERSTAND THIS AND CONTINUE THE TRADITION OF SENSIBLE CHNAGELOGS!!!

by too lazy (not verified)

agreed.. I'm American and I haven't ever payed attention to the "warning level" (expect maybe..erm, the months after Sept11 after we bombed the snot out of the Taliban), and neither have most Americans.

by em (not verified)

Oh my, this guy is real nuts. Read his blog:
http://the-amazing.us/simplyamerican/

by MxCl (not verified)

Neil seems a little obsessed with "anti-americanism", while constantly branding non-americans as "them". Is Neil "anti-everyone-else"? Seems like it to me.

I think America is a great country and I'm a Brit. However I don't approve of everything they do, but since when does anyone do everything right?

Please don't reply to this post, I don't want to start a thread.

by CE (not verified)

Well, many of today's "Anti-Americanists" admire many aspects of the US.
But many other aspects are simply not acceptable, if you believe in freedom, democracy, civil rights ...
There are enough Americans who have that "Anti-American" attitude, even if you're not accepting Mr. Moore.

by ac (not verified)

Neil seems a little obsessed with "anti-americanism", while constantly branding non-americans as "them". Is Neil "anti-everyone-else"? Seems like it to me.

Kind of.
But don't blame neil entirely. W. started this US vs. Them crap. Unfortunatly, the US is simply the hardline republican party. It has carried over to some people that is fanatism equal to, if not exceeding, OBL/Al Qaeida level and that far exceeds what you see in the Linux/anti-microsoft camp.
I suspect that if our forefathers were alive today, many of them would be talking about, or even calling for, a revolution against this government.

by oops (not verified)

Seems paranoid. A bit scary actually.

by Rob Kaper (not verified)

It's a commentary. Often it's "read news", "post" with few steps in between. SA should not be taken as a manual towards life.

Yes, there are many conservative, controversial, offensive and questionable posts on there. For example, I hate Neil's constant whining about the Dodgers and I bet he could do without my comments on the Giants himself. :-)

by patents (not verified)

I am ashamed that KDE.org didn't participate in protesting against software patents in Europe.

Why? Who could be more affected than you? What could be more detrimental to you?

by anon (not verified)

> I am ashamed that KDE.org didn't participate in protesting against software patents in Europe.

It sure did.

by ac (not verified)

It did, jackass. Go be ashamed elsewhere.

by AC (not verified)

like on slashdot for example..

by Neil Stevens (not verified)

Some of us are disappointed that KDE *did* move away from a no-politics policy to participate in that European political protest.

by CE (not verified)

It was KDE's own interest to participate, since KDE and other OSS is facing problems because of software patents.

This is *no* move away from a no-politics policy.

by Thomas (not verified)

kde is directly affected by _software_ patents regardless what country is going to introduce _software_ patents... These patents are _not_ about iraq, not about the Taliban nor about the u.s. army....

again: about _software_ (that's what kde is all about)

conclusion: kde is _not_ about iraq/the taliban/old europe/insert any appropriate term here to start endless political discussions. It's simply about software. Keep it that way...