JAN
2
2004

KDE 3.2 Beta 2 Reviews Roundup

Three reviews recently joined the list of KDE 3.2 reviews with most having an emphasis on the applications being new in KDE 3.2: Francesc tried it on Gentoo and states in this blog "This release is the best KDE I've ever tried". Pycs writes about his first impressions and likes it too. Finally, gooeylinux.org published a rather controversial article about the good and bad sides of KDE 3.2 Beta 2.

Comments

> he's complaining that they include too many apps in the whole thing

I don't think he can nag about this since apparently he doesn't know how to disable compliation of certain apps (like what distros would do with a stable version)..


By fault at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

I promise you... I'm not rich.. Not rich at all.
I just know that I need RAM more than I need CPU speed.
If you are reviewing packages as KDE that you compile youre selves then you should know this fact I think


By Jarl E. Gjessing at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

If he's "rich" enough to buy a 2 GHz machine, he can certainly afford $70 for another 256MB of RAM.


By Tukla at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

You probably don't know how to measure ram usage.
A hint, type 'man free' in a console.


By ealm at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

Yes I know how to measure RAM usage!
That is why I'm saying that KDE uses about 200 Mb.
Linux uses close to 100% because it caches as much as it can.
Why do you mean that I cannot measure the RAM usage?

I'm just saying that if you use a package as large as KDE and expect it to run with little RAM usage.


By Jarl E. Gjessing at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

What he mean is that you dont know how to measure RAM usage, and he is right (neither does the reviewer, so dont feel bad). KDE doesnt use anywhere near 200Mbyte RAM, you are counting a lot of the same RAM-usage more than twice, or use the amount of "free" space which is totally useless on Linux.


By carewolf at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

I know it does. But when I'm counting the RAM usage I'm counting with all the KDE apps that I have running at once and that is many.
And then yes then the RAM usage comes close to 200.
With Korganizer, Kmail, Konqueror kscd ++++ you will automaticall use a lot of RAM


By Jarl E. Gjessing at Sun, 2004/01/04 - 6:00am

256Mb RAM on a 2 GHz machine hi hi hi. Get a life. Why have a machine with that processor when you're running on SWAP?

This guy is probably a lamer, but maybe he can't afford buying more memory.

Myself I do run KDE on a 2.4 GHz with 256 MB RAM computer, just because I bought it second hand, and it was like that. Usually I don't need to run that many apps simultaneously, so tipically it doesn't require swapping and the computers performs fine enough.

At some moment I will spend money on RAM, just not right now, I'm afraid. But hey, I accept donations ;)


By Quique at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

> ... 256Mb RAM on a 2 GHz machine hi hi hi.

That was my first thought, too. ;-)

Please people use _pmap_ on Linux, Solaris, etc. PLEASE, PLEASE!

V4.0/CMake> free -t
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 1034732 1006740 27992 0 244112 451252
-/+ buffers/cache: 311376 723356
Swap: 2103288 128828 1974460
Total: 3138020 1135568 2002452

Count "buffers" + "cached" etc.

"Small" example X with DRI-Devel (;-):

9011 root 15 0 133m 45m 78m S 2.0 4.5 9:24.71 schedule_ X

Have a special look at "Private" and _substract_ "[ anon ]"...

V4.0/CMake> pmap -x `pidof X`
9011: /usr/X11R6/bin/X vt7 -auth /var/lib/xdm/authdir/authfiles/A:0-a
Address kB Resident Shared Private Permissions Name
000a0000 128 - 128 0 read/write/exec mem
000f0000 64 - 64 0 read/exec mem
08048000 1456 - 0 1456 read/exec XFree86
081b4000 200 - 0 200 read/write XFree86
081e6000 28768 - 0 28768 read/write/exec [ anon ]
40000000 96 - 0 96 read/exec ld-2.3.2.so
40018000 4 - 0 4 read/write ld-2.3.2.so
40019000 4 - 0 4 read/write [ anon ]
40031000 52 - 0 52 read/exec libz.so.1.1.4
4003e000 8 - 0 8 read/write libz.so.1.1.4
40040000 136 - 0 136 read/exec libm.so.6
40062000 4 - 0 4 read/write libm.so.6
40063000 8 - 0 8 read/exec libdl.so.2
40065000 4 - 0 4 read/write libdl.so.2
40066000 4 - 0 4 read/write [ anon ]
40067000 1200 - 0 1200 read/exec libc.so.6
40193000 20 - 0 20 read/write libc.so.6
40198000 8 - 0 8 read/write [ anon ]
4019a000 28 - 0 28 read/exec libnss_compat.so.2
401a1000 4 - 0 4 read/write libnss_compat.so.2
401a2000 72 - 0 72 read/exec libnsl.so.1
401b4000 4 - 0 4 read/write libnsl.so.1
401b5000 8 - 0 8 read/write [ anon ]
401b7000 32 - 0 32 read/exec libnss_nis.so.2
401bf000 4 - 0 4 read/write libnss_nis.so.2
401c0000 36 - 0 36 read/exec libnss_files.so.2
401c9000 4 - 0 4 read/write libnss_files.so.2
401ca000 148 - 0 148 read/write [ anon ]
401ef000 28 - 0 28 read/exec libfreetype.so
401f6000 4 - 0 4 read/write libfreetype.so
4020e000 292 - 0 292 read/exec libfreetype.so.6.3.3
40257000 16 - 0 16 read/write libfreetype.so.6.3.3
4025b000 176 - 0 176 read/write [ anon ]
40287000 512 - 512 0 read/write mem
40307000 65536 - 65536 0 read/write mem
44307000 64 - 64 0 read/write mem
44317000 8 - 8 0 read/write card0
44319000 1028 - 1028 0 read/write card0
4441a000 4 - 4 0 read/write card0
4441b000 2048 - 2048 0 read/write card0
4461b000 4992 - 4992 0 read/write card0
44afb000 2048 - 2048 0 read/write card0
44cfc000 228 - 0 228 read/write [ anon ]
44de3000 748 - 0 748 read/write [ anon ]
44fce000 15372 - 0 15372 read/write [ anon ]
4638e000 10248 - 0 10248 read/write [ anon ]
46de2000 8 - 0 8 read/write [ anon ]
bffa8000 352 - 0 352 read/write/exec [ anon ]
-------- ------ ------ ------ ------
total kB 136216 - 76432 59784

What do you get...?

Greetings,
Dieter

PS Have a look at http://dri.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/ for "current" DRI (OpenGL/Mesa).


By Dieter Nützel at Wed, 2004/01/07 - 6:00am

Hey, my situation is differant and I hope you may be able to offer some insight. I have a P4 2.4 G machine and 448 of RAM. I run Mandrake 10.1 off with everything possible installed. I.E. Gnome and KDE 3.2 I like to run them at the same time simply because i like bragging about having two loggins at the same time for my "windows" friends. Anyways I have 894 Mb partition for swap but my devise never uses it. Is there some way to turn it on or point to it. I dont do a lot of programming but I live on my computer so I run a lot of apps. My CPU stays low but my RAM is always running hi. I check via Ksysguard and free -m.

Basically can you help me start utilizing my swap?


By mitch at Sun, 2005/04/10 - 5:00am

Here is how it works.

Type free at your command line (here's what I get):

total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 320036 316672 3364 0 11620 118884
-/+ buffers/cache: 186168 133868
Swap: 192740 18136 174604

Now, if you have a high "free" on "-/+ buffers cache", you have memory to spare, and don't worry.

If you have that low, and "total" on "swap" is 0, you would need to enable your swap, because it's disabled.

However, if your "total swap" is something other than 0, and you have free memory (in the second row, not the first!), you are just fine, and don't worry.


By Roberto Alsina at Sun, 2005/04/10 - 5:00am

What do you get with 'free -t'?
'cat /proc/meminfo'?

If your swap IS enabled and you see '0' (Zero) then it isn't used 'cause you have 'enough' RAM.

Hope that helps.

-Dieter


By Dieter Nützel at Tue, 2005/04/12 - 5:00am

I, personally, think the KDE development team needs to take a step back and figure out what direction we need to be going here.

The KDE team has MANY things going for it, but I feel like we're squandering it. We have an excellent DCOP setup, fantastic internationalization team, WONDERFUL framework in place, KParts that make embedding things in other apps wonderful, etc, etc, etc.

KDE's strengths then are EASE OF DEVELOPMENT. INTEGRATION. But while these things make the life of a programmer a Joy, they DON'T nessesarily keep us in tune with USERS. And DEVELOPERS using a desktop envirionment is different from USERS using an environment. WE can deal with tons of options, 'cause we're technologically savvy and don't MIND digging through docs. But I know my dad can pick up Mozilla Thunderbird and DO what he NEEDS TO DO instantly. KMail has taken him a week to start to be comfortable. Konqueror is similar. Hell ALL the apps are similar. Just because you CAN show off "all the feature" doesn't mean you should. Lets try to build SANE GUI components. Lets get even CLEARER and BETTER GUI standards! I wish I had the technical expertise to draw up a set of standards that was clear and consise. It needs to be an EASY read. WELL indexed. A few pages at most with links to more stuff. Hell maybe I will write one just so people can tell me it's crappy and I get more talented persons to redo it. The old GUI guide, I'm sorry, sucks. Big time. No specific guidelines, and it's not a good/easy read.

We need to be turning the corner. Think Enterprise. Think Users. We already have a great development environment, tons of translaters, and good programmers. Are we going to CONTINUE to make a desktop to use to write software to make a desktop to write software to... ad nauseum?

regards,
dan


By danOstrowski at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

> Hell maybe I will write one just so people can tell me it's crappy and I get more talented persons to redo it.

Please do so if you want... writing drafts of specs is always better than doing nothing at all.


By anon at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

No, KDE project as a whole is no way at a turning point, it's rather at a point where it is both featureful and flexible enough to be adapted to very different audiences. Please remember that the KDE project itself doesn't offer anything but the source code, binaries and preselection of programs with different defaults are offered by distributions and other service companies. I doubt you are telling your dad to configure/make/make install KDE and work with the default KDE just for then bitching that it's doesn't suite him, you will rather suggest him a distribution which chose KDE settings you know your dad likes.

I think it's very sad that distributors and service companies so far not at all made extensive use of KDE's flexibility regarding settings and defaults at all. Somehow everyone seems to refer to GNOME for an agreeable minimal amount of visible features [insert the regrets about removed features here] but at the same time while it's perfectly possible to make KDE have a minimal amount of visible features as well just by changing settings while not touching code/removing features no single person or company dared to give it a try. Why is that?


By Datschge at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

perfectly possible to make KDE have a minimal amount of visible features as well just by changing settings while not touching code/removing features no single person or company dared to give it a try. Why is that?
----------
People view KDE as a complete product, even if the KDE project doesn't position it that way. There are a few companies, like Lindows and Xandros, willing to customize and ship a different UI, but most companies, and most people, view that as doing an end-run around the KDE project itself. Few people are willing to use the customized KDE versions, because they are usually behind the latest available version, and people percieve the customized version as being not a proper KDE, but a "forked" version.

If it is considered a legitimate need to offer a simplified KDE UI, if only for the corporate market, such a project would have to come from within KDE, and be sanctioned by the KDE project. Like it or not, the DE projects have a prominance others do not. They are not a behind-the-scenes project that simply makes technology that gets integrated into a distribution (like, say, the glibc project). Instead, they transcend distribution boundries, and must market the DE and interact directly with companies. The GNOME project understands this. They engage in marketing tactics like putting OpenOffice and Mozilla under the GNOME banner, even thought that means nothing technically. They've managed to convince most corporate users that the large body of GTK-only apps are really GNOME apps.

Corporations like that sort of organization. They want important initiatives to come directly from the prominent project, not just some independent ISV.


By Rayiner Hashem at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

gpwm.

also: you're essentially asking for a duplication of effort by interested parties? why? come up with a minimal, normal, super-loaded set of options within the kde project, you know the code best.


By anon at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

What does gpwm mean?

As for the minimal UI coming from within the KDE project: isn't that what I said?


By Rayiner Hashem at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

- UI usbaility research, perhaps cross-finaced via Governments or master thesis works

- Enterprise software

- Kiosk mode, solutions for Internet Cafés and the corporate desktop


By Andre at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

I'm using it daily, and got only two problems:
1. konqueror krashes too much and I have to use mozilla firebird.
2. quanta sometimes is very slow on typing.

As it is just the second beta, I can't complain about those minor problems. Overall it's really good.


By Iuri Fiedoruk at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

Just fond a new one, a bad one:

3. unlocking dosen't work, password isn't reconized


By Iuri Fiedoruk at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

I suppose you're talking of the sceenlock.

Have you installed your KDE as root?
AFAIK some file must be suid root so it's able to read
the crypted password from /etc/shadow.
If it isn't then you get this behaviour.


By cm at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

It is checkpass that needs to be root, it is normally in $KDEDIR/bin

Have a nice day!


By Nicolas Goutte at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

Yes, it wasn't installed as root. :)
Thanks for the tip guys, I'll try it.


By Iuri Fiedoruk at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

Been running 3.2b2 since the day after release - after 1 day of testing, liked it so much, I put it on my production laptop with Fedora. Haven't tested many of the new exciting high productivity features (like VNC), just using it in normal daily business apps (which IMO is a good test). Also I know KOffice is separate (but do think they should be released together..) And KDevelop - well, a good development environment is the key...it needs more attention.
1) Biggest problem is with MIME - the default settings are all screwed up (could this just be the Fedora port?)
2) Next biggest problem are fairly frequent hangs - Esc or Cntl+Alt+Esc are usually needed especially when clicking on the start menu (My guess is this is a Fedora threading problem - others have told me the beta is running smooth on Debian)
3) Konqueror is running fine, a few pages here and there have problems (me thinks mostly a missing flash and java plugin issue)...BUT.. pdf viewing is totally messed up - not sure if this is a Kuickshow problem or a MIME problem or whatever - didn't have this problem with 3.1.4. The new popup menu that allows you to tar a bunch of files is very nice. Desktop icon sorting by type still sorts on spelling instead.
4) Kontact is working well but Palm synching STILL not running right - this time no calendar info seems to move to PC. Only some notes move to PC (doesn't seem to be just a private issue). The newer KPilot conduit settings dialog seems pretty well done but Palm synching should be right in the Kontact menus. KNode is working well. KMail is working well and seems to download mail much faster. The new address book has lots of new useful fields (especially category - thank you!). Will be testing it out in a contact manager role here shortly (though without reliable synching, can't really use it the way we want). The address lookup in KMail is still very slow. I'm still not sure how to use SpamAssassin with this - for a normal user this would be nice to be more built in - in next version a wizard for this might be nice.
5) Kivio shows a much nicer operation - just missing the ability to put in a background image on the drawing. And of course a visio import would be so nice.
6) I've used KWord to read those .doc email attachments that some still send - the .doc import seems vastly improved (and of course way faster than OpenOffice)
7) Umbrello has the potential to be an award winning program addition - thinking of now completely switching from our Dia and Kivio diagrams and Whiteboards.
8) KDevelop - the new menu structure and dialogs are making this much easier to use. Some Qt projects imported easily. But it has crashed a few times and so we are still relying on Kate. I'll repeat and say this is the program that deserves the most attention - far more than arguing over control center designs.
9) Kate & KWrite are both working well (though the file list docking button is not obvious - it would be nicer to dock by default instead of overlapping). Old problems of losing open KWrite file display when logging out are gone - both packages seem to save and reopen themselves very well now as does Qt Designer.
10) K3b is also a nice addition and is now CD burner of choice - but it wasn't on the menus - had to add it.
11) Kde-forum.org is nice (need to use it more) but would prefer a simple newsgroup instead (this way all support forums I use would be in KNode).
12) Not sure why many seem to be complaining about some missing "start here" button - Maybe I just hire smart employees or something but never had an issue with being able to use the menus to change settings - in fact I wish my employees couldn't find their way around control panel so easily so their settings would remain consistent :). The KDE setup wizard does not include plastik as an option (should probably be the default).
13) Please get rid of screensaver in random that shows your last screen in a revolving manner - it shows whatever confidential last screen details to passer-bys while you are up at the counter getting a latte.

As a project run by volunteers and is free and somewhat crossplatform - 3.2 is a great effort and accomplishment.


By john at Sat, 2004/01/03 - 6:00am

> 12) Not sure why many seem to be complaining about some missing "start here"
>button - Maybe I just hire smart employees or something but never had an issue
> with being able to use the menus to change settings - in fact I wish my
> employees couldn't find their way around control panel so easily so their
> settings would remain consistent :). The KDE setup wizard does not include
> plastik as an option (should probably be the default).
> 13) Please get rid of screensaver in random that shows your last screen in a
> revolving manner - it shows whatever confidential last screen details to
> passer-bys while you are up at the counter getting a latte.

Have you taken a look at the kiosk framework?
It addresses those two points:

- You can lock down parts of the configuration so the desktops remain consistent
- You can disable any screensavers that break confidality
(not one-by-one, but with one single option, that's a supported feature)


By cm at Sun, 2004/01/04 - 6:00am

4) [...] I'm still not sure how to use SpamAssassin with this - for a normal
> user this would be nice to be more built in - in next version a wizard for
> this might be nice.

It's already in the works:
http://dot.kde.org/1073158897/


By cm at Sun, 2004/01/04 - 6:00am

> 11) Kde-forum.org is nice (need to use it more) but would prefer a simple newsgroup instead (this way all support forums I use would be in KNode).

comp.windows.x.kde does exist, and you can also read all KDE mailing lists with KNode at nntp://news.uslinuxtraining.com and also with many more at nntp://news.gmane.org.


By Anonymous at Sun, 2004/01/04 - 6:00am

One of the thinks some reviews pointed out is the redundancy of menus and options in KDE applications. It seems to me that there is some redundancy in KDE applications. For example kedit seems to be a trivial editor that can spell check and send email (!?). Kwriter also shares so many features with kate that it looks like a striped down version of it. I can mention several other examples and my question is why don't the KDE people try to make things a bit more simple by droping a couple of applications and merging their functionality to others?


By Reader at Wed, 2004/01/07 - 6:00am

> Kwriter also shares so many features with kate that it looks like a striped down version of it.

Surprise, it is a stripped down version.


By Anonymous at Wed, 2004/01/07 - 6:00am

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