MAY
26
2004

KDE 3.3 Release Cycle Starts with KDE 3.3 Alpha 1 "Kindergarten"

That's one small step for KDE, one giant leap for Free Software - the KDE 3.3 Alpha 1 has been released to the FTP servers this morning. There won't be any binary packages for this release, everyone using Kindergarten is asked to compile it with --enable-debug, so that we can get valuable feedback. There is a new unstable version of Konstruct also available to install it. Other than that, feel free to play around with things, check if your bugs are still there or if there are places where you can help. Check the KDE 3.3 feature plan for things to look for.

Kindergarten is hopefully only the first step as we're heading for the aKademy.

Comments

works fine here (konq 3.2.2, linux 2.6.5)


By Anonymous at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

I can't read the page, but it loads just fine for me. Unless the applet's not on the front page, in which case, could you send the URL for the page with the Java applet. Everything loads, there's no empty boxes like there was before I installed Java. Don't see the problem with this page.

This is on FreeBSD 5.2-CURRENT, KDE 3.2.2, JDK 1.4.2.


By Freddie at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

www.bradesco.com.br

-> this page loads completely in konqueror 3.2.1, including the flash-animation.
I don't see any java applets, but I also don't see any blank spots where a java applet is missing..


By Anonymous at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

See http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=75624
This is fixed in current CVS, so please try this alpha release and report your findings.

There is support for secure signed applet in this new release too, although not finished. But if an applet wants to do things that are normally forbidden and it has SSL certificates, you get a dialog asking what to do. You can confirm it for only one action but also for all forbidden actions afterwards.

So please test and report!


By koos at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Very good to hear it! I really like konqueror and this site is necessary to me.

I'm going to continue to use Firefox until the next KDE release.


By Paulo Junqueira... at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

It is necessary to go to the next page to see the applet. It is necessary to fill the agency and account number.

About the other site, there's a javascript in the right side that scrolls the todays partys and it doesn't work too.

I guess it will fixed in the next release too.


By Paulo Junqueira... at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

One more site: Orkut

Konqueror is not working to rank friends.


By Paulo Junqueira... at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

I just went and tried it out...selected haven't met & acquaintance, they showed up, moved a friend from Friend to Good Friend...everything worked. I'm on KDE 3.2.1


By Steven Scott at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

I guess I inform you the wrong page. Try FriendsKarma.


By Paulo Junqueira... at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

I guess you didn´t try the same part as me.

The link is the "Friends Karma"


By Paulo Junqueira... at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

I think this is known problem, check this out: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=66816


By tpr at Fri, 2004/05/28 - 5:00am

I´m facing some problems with Banco do Brasil too. http://www.bb.com.br ,
I´ve installed the Sun´s applet and when I try to access my acount it just says
"loadind applet".


By Doug Br at Tue, 2004/09/21 - 5:00am

I looked through the feature plan, and noticed that there was no mention of superkaramba anywhere. Are the plans to incorporate this in the works? I know that Adam had stated that it may be too early for it to be considered to be added to KDE, but I was mostly curious as to the status of the consideration.
cheers,
-Ryan


By Ryan Nickell at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Superkaramba is to much overhead if you ask me.
Such things should be created as a kdesktop replacement.


By Mark Hannessen at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

The overhead is not from superkaramba, but the themes that are not well written or don't free resources when they are not needed. Superkaramba is actually written in C, with a python hook for the themes to run.


By Ryan Nickell at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

I have to disagree.

I've studied the superkaramba source, and I suspect that most of the overhead and/or wasted cycles is due to the polling model that superkaramba uses when dealing with it's sensors. Coupled to that is the significant overhead of the karamba core calling into python and back.

FWIW, I've re-implemented karamba from scratch as a PyKDE app. It's not done (I'm waiting on the KDE 3.3 and PyKDE 3.11 to ship). My app is called "karakoram" and it uses almost zero cpu -- much, much less than karamba.

I've uploaded a snapshot here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/karakoram/

Screenie here:

http://root.karakoram.org/karakoram_site_previous/gallery


By Troy Melhase at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

That´s pretty cool!


By Roberto Alsina at Fri, 2004/05/28 - 5:00am

Hey, thanks!


By Troy Melhase at Wed, 2004/06/02 - 5:00am

The progect and the goals are really nice but the name is so.....weird :)


By Davide Ferrari at Fri, 2004/05/28 - 5:00am

Weird? I'd have never thought the name was weird. Maybe unusual, but not weird.

Karakoram is the name of a mountain range in the Himalayas. I used it years ago as my Quake2 handle, and when I was looking for a name for this project, it seemed to fit well -- no other software named that, and it starts with a K. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karakoram


By Troy Melhase at Wed, 2004/06/02 - 5:00am

Okay, which syllable(s) in "karakoram" get(s) emphasized?


By Tukla Ratte at Fri, 2004/05/28 - 5:00am


By Troy Melhase at Wed, 2004/06/02 - 5:00am

Although K3B is in my opinion the best CD/DVD burning tool available for Linux I would like to see more stability (less misburns) in K3B before KDE 3.3 final is released.

For many new Linux/KDE users CD/DVD burning software will be an essential requirement when deciding to make the transition to Linux. IF burning a CD/DVD doesn't work 99% of the time (like that in Nero or EasyCD/DVD Creator) then many new users will find Linux a waste of time.


By thesimplefix at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Why should KDE 3.3 be delayed because of k3b?! They are released independently.


By Anonymous at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Because when Joe User downloads/purchases and installs a major Linux build (Fedora, Mandrake, Xandros, Lindows/Linspire, etc... ) it will likely come with the most recent version of K3B available at the time. When Joe User runs K3B and finds CD/DVDs only burn correctly 85% of the time ( I myself find this to be the case ) they are likely to be not pleased with Linux. Yes, I'm aware that K3B is NOT Linux , but users will see it as Linux having a break in functionality that their WIndows PC already had.

When I deployed Mozilla at work (as an alternative to Outlook XP) the first things users requested if was able to do all the the things Outlook could -- They had a list! Next they wanted to know if it behaved just as well or better than their current system (Outlook). If Mozilla had NOT met all these needs or had brocken functionality they already had with Outlook there would have been no way for me to deploy Mozilla.

In the case of Linux. For many new users if Linux doesn't do everything that Windows does just as well or better then they won't look at Linux/KDE twice. I think many people would agree that basic CD/DVD burning will be on the basic requirement list for most end users. When a user sees that CD/DVD burning only works 85% of the time then most users won't look twice at Linux/KDE.

Yes, K3B is completely seperate from KDE -- I know, but when a user tries to burn a CD/DVD with K3B, and it only works 85% of the time it's LINUX that failed them -- NOT K3B! The user will then resort back to Windows where yes they had their problems, but when they burned a cd it just worked 99% of the time!


By thesimplefix at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

With a half-modern CD burner and burnproof enabled, I have yet to see k3b screw a disk.


By Roberto Alsina at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

It is also rather simplistic to blame k3b. k3b uses a lot of other low-level tools.


By David at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Not true. I have noticed lately (11.8-11.9) that I am getting weird behaviors and mis-burns. I have a 4 month-old Liteon DVD burner, and a gig of ram, so don't blame the hardware. 85% seems right.


By Joe at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Is this a distro you have built up yourself or a commercial distro?


By David at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Well, saying it's not true that I haven't seen it is... well, wrong.


By Roberto Alsina at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

You probably want to make sure that burn-proof (burn-free, whatever) is enabled. Not sure about K3B, but I know that cdrecord (stupidly) disables burn-proof unless it is explicitly enabled.


By Jim at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Yeah, thanks. I've been doing this since Linux scratched his ass at his mom's house and cd-r's were in caddies, but thanks.

It was built from source.


By Joe at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

Well, it's disabled because some hardware doesn't support it.

I have a 4x scsi yamaha that simply doesn't work if burnproof is on. If I set it to off and do nothing else (it's a P1-166 :-) it does record successfully almost every time (perhaps 5 failures every 100).


By Roberto Alsina at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

You did it by saying that you've got a `Liteon`. That's the problem.


By TaNGo at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

Wow, is that complete bullshit.

I have 3 Plextors and 1 Liteon. The Plextors cannot come close to the accurate burns of the Liteon. Why don't you give me some backup before you just blurt out nonsense?


By Joe at Thu, 2004/06/03 - 5:00am

> Because when Joe User downloads/purchases and installs a major Linux build (Fedora, Mandrake, Xandros, Lindows/Linspire, etc... ) it will likely come with the most recent version of K3B available at the time.

So what's the problem? You say yourself that the distributions will go and get the latest version of K3B, so why should the whole KDE project wait around for it?

> When Joe User runs K3B and finds CD/DVDs only burn correctly 85% of the time ( I myself find this to be the case )

That's very surprising, if people were having trouble like this on a wide-scale basis, then I'm sure I'd have heard about it before now. What distribution are you using? It sounds like something is misconfigured. I'm assuming you aren't getting similar results in Windows?

In any case, K3B is merely a front-end to cdrecord, so if anything is going wrong on the software side, it'll be a) a fault in cdrecord, b) a fault in the Linux kernel, or c) some kind of system misconfiguration. It's very difficult for a front-end to accidentally lower reliability.


By Jim at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

"When I deployed Mozilla at work (as an alternative to Outlook XP) the first things users requested if was able to do all the the things Outlook could -- They had a list! Next they wanted to know if it behaved just as well or better than their current system (Outlook). If Mozilla had NOT met all these needs or had brocken functionality they already had with Outlook there would have been no way for me to deploy Mozilla."

Then why were you deploying Mozilla? Sounds like they are happy with Outlook. Users do not create a list of features for Outlook because they generally don't even know what features it does have! You need to create a rational for using Mozilla or something else based on cost, additional features and whether it gets the job done easily and simply. Make sure you know how to use the software fully as well! Backing from top management is key, then sit down with your users, tell them what you are doing, why you are switching and what it is going to mean for them. Fear is a large part of that process and why people cling onto Outlook, and a great deal of fear can be removed by simply talking to them. Unfortunately, these are social obstacles rather than technical ones ("Oh we must make an Outlook clone") that need to be solved. Get two or three users to use something different, do test installations, and everyone wonders what it is that they've got.

Features are an inevitable part of whether the software can get the job done, but Joe User 'never' creates a list of those features. He probably never uses any of them.

"I know, but when a user tries to burn a CD/DVD with K3B, and it only works 85% of the time it's LINUX that failed them -- NOT K3B!"

Sorry but I have only ever seen k3b work 100% of the time. K3B WORKS! What distribution are you using it with? Is it a commercial one or is it a custom made distro? If it is a custom made distro then you need to look at the issues yourself and find out what tools K3B needs to work. If it is a commercial distro then you have some comeback because they need to have looked at these configuration issues.

"The user will then resort back to Windows where yes they had their problems, but when they burned a cd it just worked 99% of the time!"

People do have issues with burning on Windows, more often than not. The reason why people think that it works more often is because they are more familiar with it!


By David at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

Common simptom! If anyone complains on Linux/KDE/any software that runs on Linux, everyone start bashing him!

I used to run RH 99% of my time (it is not the case any more :(, I had to change the company). I was quite happy with it. But for CD recording, I was really disapointed. I realized then that I:
o if I have to make backups, I use cdrecord from command line
o if I have choice of OS, I go to Win and I use Nero

Even newer versions of K3b did not change that, no matter that I like that particular piece of software.

Please, be aware of the problem, don't kill the messenger!


By Tomislav at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

The messenger should also be aware that he has to deliver a *message*, not just point his finger and wave his hands a lot.

You are aware that k3b just calls cdrecord, right?

If you consistently notice cdrecord works and k3b doesn't, use the debug view in k3b, and check the options it's passing to cdrecord, and compare.

Then, you can tell someone (like, say, the k3b author) how and why k3b fails, or at least he can guess.

As I said, I have burned a whole lot of CDs (about 30 a week, lots of ISO backups generated with Mondo Rescue) using k3b without failing *once*. So, while I don't doubt you have had problems, maybe the problems are not as widespread as you think.


By Roberto Alsina at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

I am using k3b for a year, and I haven't a single failure because a k3b or cdrecord fault, mostly bad media (cheap cd-r, that also crashes on other systems) that I will not buy again.


By c0p0n at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

You're lucky it works 85% of the time. I've yet to get
it to work at all. System is a Sony PCV-RZ502P with
Suse 9.0 Linux installed with pretty much vanilla
options. All attempts fail to write the CD and make
it unusable afterwards.

Attempting to burn a DVD, CD/RW or CD-R always fails.
Yet on the same machine dual booted into winXP, I can
burn all of those 100% of the time.


By keithS at Thu, 2004/12/02 - 6:00am

Look I have been using k3b for the last year if not longer and have had less coasters created it than with easyCD. If my wife can use K3b without any comlaints and do mean no complaints I don't really see any problem with a new linux user not being able to use it or for that matter not like it.


By octico at Thu, 2004/05/27 - 5:00am

K3b is not a part of KDE.
The Release of KDE 3.3 has no influence on the quality of that application.


By Anonymous at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

WHAT!?, I'm yet to have k3b fail on me. Infact, on older hardware, k3b was a lot more stable and reliable under linux than nero burn under windows that broken numerous CDs due to buffer under-run, which wasnt the came with K3B.

As for burning CDs, I burnt over 300 CDs with my new Plextor 48X CD writer and K3B, and NONE, I repeat, not a single CD was currupt with k3b.

If your CDs fail to write, blame the CDs you bought, or your CD writer is dying. It is nothing to do with K3B in all cases. Anoher possibility are the core applications K3B is the frontend for, so investigate if cdrecord is to blame.


By Hackeron at Sat, 2004/06/05 - 5:00am

I know it is hard to do with the current XF86 server. But Drop shadows for kde's windows will put the window manager way ahead of MSWindows and would probably make it one of the most advanced window manager (ok it probably is anyway but i mean seriously wicked advanced). So please any KDE DEVELOPERS/ARTIST consider native drop shadows for the next KDE release.

Thanks KDE rules!


By Kevin A at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I completly agree! I love the shadows!!!!!!!!!!


By Martijn S at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

I agree, I'm using kwin drop shadows for kde 3.2.2 and it is rather stable, even if it needs some final improvements.

Nicolas.


By Nicolas Blanco at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

What are you, 12?


By Joe at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

What are you, old and bitter? ;)

Come on. Let's keep it sane.


By Eike Hein at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

> Let's keep it sane.

I think that was his whole point. Drop shadows don't make anything "one of the most advanced window manager[s]", and it wouldn't put it "way ahead of MSWindows". It's just a nice touch, that's all.


By Jim at Wed, 2004/05/26 - 5:00am

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