Today sees the release of Kubuntu 8.10 featuring the latest KDE 4.1 desktop. The Kubuntu developers have been hard at work, integrating this major new version into a completed desktop. The settings and artwork have been kept close to KDE's defaults to ensure the best face of our favourite desktop shines through. Desktop effects have been enabled by default for cards which support it thanks to the wonderful KWin and package management comes via a brand new version of Adept. Printer Applet and System Config Printer KDE were written to ensure a complete user experience, both are now part of KDE itself. Update Manager, Language Selector and plenty other tools have been reworked for KDE 4. Upgrade, download or request a free CD.
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# Pearson Computing KDE3.5 Repository
deb http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/ intrepid main
deb-src http://apt.pearsoncomputing.net/ intrepid main
So does Kubuntu not provided the other non kde packages you need without having to update KDE? I know OpenSUSE do.
I tried Kubuntu's release, and honestly, compared with the beta 4 released of Opensuse's 11.1, I couldn't believe how more stable opensuse was, considering that it was a beta release, and how far better they had modefied KDE
I have never seen such a buggy and unpolished distribution like this Kubuntu release. The whole distribution is a terrible mix of languages since your great piece of closed source software called "Launchpad" distroyed the work of so many kde translators once again and even worse than ever before. You tell the people the Kubuntu has to fit on one CD to make it possible to use in counties still in development where DVD drives are not so common but you have no problems releasing a distribution which is unusable for people not speaking English... There are regions in the world, where you might have the posibility to use a simple computer but still won't have the chance to learn english. It's a shame what Launchpad does to KDE's translations.
I can agree that!
In Slovenian, for instance space is translated to vesolje (universe, which is similar word to space), but in fact space key has to be called 'preslednica'.
"It's a shame what Launchpad does to KDE's translations."
Yes, this is sadly true. Kubuntu was always one to the worst translated Distris, but in Intrepid this is a pure disaster.
Simply embarrassing!
My grip with launchpad translations: for like 12 or 18 months (at least, I'm pretty sure its fixed now) the status bar in Amarok 1.4 would show HTML code in the Canadian and Australian translations. It was like no one cared or had the ability to do anything about it.
openSUSE developed a fantastic build respository allowing any user to build software on their servers, even for other distros. It really is a great tool available for the whole Linux community.
I've long wondered if the FOSS community needs a central translation repository. Major projects like KDE have a translation team, but what about small individual apps outside the KDE servers? What about individual distros?
If I can commit the strings from my distro or app in a central place where anyone can translate them, I think it would help things a great deal. In addition, simple single-word translations perhaps could just be plucked from the repository.
Instantly my app could pick up say 70 different languages translating copy and paste because someone already translated those strings for other apps.
I update KDE4 once per month and give it a try, each time I end up back to my beloved KDE3. I've never seen a product make so many regressions from one version to a new one, we really set a record there and if Firefox now is on the Guiness book, so should be KDE4 too.
Now I will wait until version 4.2 to give it another try, hopefully I can use my second monitor by then without problems and, read it carefully, do advanced printouts with kprint, like printing only odd (or even) pages!
I also wonder what happened to all those benchmarks showing how faster and with a smaller memory footprint KDE4 was, oh boy, I bought into that!
Certain things are also a waste of time and effort, like the composite effects. They never worked reliably, neither in the long history of KDE3 nor do they now in KDE4. They're hyped to dead, but they don't work and if we never managed to make the simple composite effects of KDE3 work well, can we expect to see them working reliable in the near/middle future?
Imagine if QT were 100% controlled by the community, you could be able to only maximize windows, but not minimize or close them until the next release :)
Poor Kubuntu users, all four of them.
In my experience the KDE4 desktop effects work way better than the KDE3 ones ever did. The KDE3 ones were horrible. I've never had any trouble with the KDE4 ones, and if you have, KDE/Kubuntu/any KDE distro would much prefer you to report it rather than making vague "it sucks" comments.
Printing odd pages is for experts only, eyecandy is for everyone!
Please provide us a link to the desktop environment you have programmed in your spare time so that we can properly compare it with KDE 4.
That's right! Because taking the time to try stuff out and give feedback, most likely indicating that not every whizz-bang feature endlessly blogged about is necessarily advantageous, is clearly a negligible contribution to the effort: how dare such a Lilliputian stand amongst the über-hacker giants whose priorities and better judgement are not to be questioned!
Providing constructive feedback is great. Basically saying "it sucks" is NOT constructive feedback.
Okay, here it is. At the moment, almost every plasmoid is essentially a glamorized applet. But the plasmoids require a lot more maintanance than the KDE3 applet... adjusting, resizing, moving around, and, inevitably, this never-ending locking and unlocking. It's the same amount of function, for more work.
But I do think it shows some promise. There have been a lot of studies lately about how multitasking really isn't as effective as people think. Now, we all know that your everyday GUI desktop environment is a hotbed of multitasking. Everything has to be up front. Now Someday, in KDE, we may see the ability for mutiple desktops built for singletasking. In other words, if I can arrange those plasmoids for writing, or for research, or for blogging, or for any single task, and if I can save those configurations and call them back, I can create a very focused and effective work environment.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95524385
Here's a seven minute NPR story that convinced me that KDE4 may have a future, even if it doesn't have much of a present
> . . . if I can arrange those plasmoids for writing, or for research, or for
> blogging . . .
I've been following this dicussion out of curiosity. I'm normally a Gnome user who tries out each new version of KDE and plays with it occasionally. I suppose it's shallow of me, but the main selling point of KDE for me has been multiple desktop backgrounds. So cool! And the lack of same in KDE4, in addition to the general confusion and lack of obvious configurability, has been offputting. But your reference to singletasking, and the article link, is extremely interesting. It's the most commonsense, useful commentary to come out of this whole discussion, much of which is b.s. I'm intrigued at the idea of setting up my own desktop in this way. If this is what the developers had in mind, it's a shame that developers are usually better at designing things than explaining them. Or so it seems to me. Thanks for your thoughts. I thought I was being self-indulgent in following the discussion this far - damned multitasking! - and suddenly get something out of it.
Hello? The guy tries out KDE 4 "once per month" (a not inconsiderable investment if he has other things to be getting on with) and points out concrete issues with the experience, and this is the same as just saying "it sucks"? Would it be kinder to the developers for the guy to just shut up about it and go and use something else? Typically, a chorus of self-congratulation ("behold our vision!") is exactly how a lot of software ends up alienating potential and existing users.
I have to admit that twin monitor setup does make some application-switching effects terribly useless. Also, Plasma messes up when dragging plasmoids from one screen to the other. I haven't reported these as bugs, and I feel ashamed for not doing so.
But. I think KDE4 rocks. I have been using it since 4.1.1 (until then, it was too unpolished, and I stuck to KDE3) and now at 4.1.2 it is very-very stable, never crashed on me, and lets me do everything that I want to do. It wasn't that easy to get used to it, but it is better.
True, KDE4 is missing features - it was a great idea to backport task manager pop-ups, for example. And I have a trillion other things that I miss if you tell me that it is missing. But it's great as it is!
I switched to KDE4 at 4.1 and will say it's coming along nicely. I really look forward to all the apps being native without the use of kde3 libs (Amarok being the primary! Kaffiene a close second.) But I know this takes time, so please just keep up the great work!
jetpeach
You could download those apps, Amarok 2 is working rather well, I haven't had any problems with it, and there are K3b, Kaffiene builds for KDE4 that work great. Well, at least they do on OpenSUSE
I can only second that and like the author of this thread said, it's coming along nicely. I use KDE4 about 90% of he time now. I use KDE 3.5.10 sometimes but not without KWIN 4 for example. KDE 3.5x is rock solid but it's beginning to show age just like XP in the Windows world. Right now KDE 4 has everything, not perfect but that will come in due time.
What really gets on top of my nerves are the whiners and waggonists.
I only want to say that i like KDE4, i like the ideas behind it, and i like the future it has. I don't mind if KDE4.0 would be called beta, alfa, or gamma. I know that lacks some features, but i don't mind, because i can live for a while without them, knowing that all of them are now in SVN.
Devs, thanks, and keep on going!!
Bye
wait until you see 4.2, it is coming along beautifully. I personally think running it on OpenSUSE that 4.2 is 10 times better than 4.1 :)
is the best KDE ever. I really enjoy working with KDE 4.1.2. As a whole KDE is very stable and looks way better than anything Windows has to offer (and KDE 3.5 btw). I think it was also the right decision to change from Konqueror to Dolphin for the standard file management (less clutter).
There is only one big downside: The KDE implementation in Kubuntu is by way the worst of all distributions I have used (Mandriva 2009.0, Opensuse 11.0).
I agree. For instance Mandriva 2009.0 with KDE 4.1.2 is totally usable for the exercises I usually did on KDE 3.5. Of course some minor bugs here and there, but this will improve by time as more people use KDE 4 and report the problems.
I ask people to be more patient. Rome wasn't built in a day.
First, how is this a downside of KDE and second, maybe you should try saying why you don't like Kubuntu. Just attacking it makes no good and you know there are people working hard on it, so why talk about the result of their work like this ?
Ok, here are my two favorites:
Graphic Glitches:
See http://forum.kde.org/showthread.php?tid=6511&page=1 for details (problem doesn't exist in opensuse or mandriva)
Adept:
I highly dislike adept. IMO it is very unintuitive (don't try to be unique for the sole purpose of being unique). Look at synaptic and kpackagekit for more intuitive UI.
Ok, here are my two favorites:
Graphic Glitches:
See http://forum.kde.org/showthread.php?tid=6511&page=1 for details (problem doesn't exist in opensuse or mandriva)
Adept:
I highly dislike adept. IMO it is very unintuitive (don't try to be unique for the sole purpose of being unique). Look at synaptic and kpackagekit for more intuitive UI.
I have these graphic glitches as well, using Kubuntu 8.10, 4 years
old 9200SE ATI (RV200) graphics card, Pentium IV 2.6 GHz.
I am very happy that the graphics effect work at all, although they are
quite slow (glxgears is at 700 FPS here). Open source driver.
But, this is actually the first KDE / X / kernel chain that supports all of my
hardware!
I have the glitches on my ASUS laptop as well, using ATI RV280.
There the effects work smoothly (glxgears at 2000 FPS). Also open
source driver.
I have often a slightly different variant of the glitches, when the
space where a menu pops out is completely black before being filled in.
In addition I have the following:
When I start kde, halfway in the progress shown in the splash screen,
the whole screen flashes for half a second, and I can actually for a moment
see the contents of a PREVIOUS KDE session!
Somehow KDE / X / whatever seems to be switching the memory of the graphics card?
About the bitching going on here w.r.t. the stability /
usefulness of KDE4.1.2: I like the progress that
is being made, and I think I will switch completely with KDE 4.2.1.
Reason is that I like working with a mature desktop for everyday work.
Until then I periodically use KDE 4.1+ on another partition.
I think progress costs time, and you cannot expect the KDE desktop to be
developed behind closed doors and suddenly to be revealed when completely
finished. If Microsoft is incapable of that (Vista!) then surely also the KDE
developers.
The pain for actual users is almost 0, I would say there is a period of
half a year between now and Q2 next year where we have problems due to
KDE3.5 (konqueror, ...) getting outdated and KDE4.x being too immature.
In all a very smooth process, it is not like somebody is forcing us to
use KDE 4...
To summarize: in my view the big common factor in many complaints is:
resistance to change. People do not like changes, and that is in my
opinion a big reason for all the bitching. Must be something in our
nature!
I like the progress being made and want to congratulate the developers and
other contributors!
I think you didn't read my post at all. I wrote "KDE 4.1.2 is the best KDE ever."
So, while I like the new KDE very much, IMO the implementation in Kubuntu is not as good as in other distributions - so I want to see an improved KDE implementation in Kubuntu.
p.s. You are absolute right about "resistance to change"
(My reply was not related to just your post.)
Historically, Kubuntu was a bit of an afterthought w.r.t. ubuntu.
The whole (k)ubuntu development cycle is still slaved to gnome releases,
and the Kubuntu team is relatively small.
The fact that Kubuntu has glitches definitely will not stop the
(k)ubuntu release. I think this means we can have a good Kubuntu
release a month orso _after_ the official (k)ubuntu release, they
just need a little more time to fix/backport.
I think that the Kubuntu team does not have the energy to backport as much as e.g. the OpenSuse folks, which have a KDE centric distribution from the start.
But personally I do not like the amount of tailoring and backporting that the OpenSuse people do, I like a "more pure" KDE.
So actually I switched back from Opensuse to Kubuntu :-)
"I have often a slightly different variant of the glitches, when the
space where a menu pops out is completely black before being filled in.
In addition I have the following:
When I start kde, halfway in the progress shown in the splash screen,
the whole screen flashes for half a second, and I can actually for a moment
see the contents of a PREVIOUS KDE session!
Somehow KDE / X / whatever seems to be switching the memory of the graphics card?"
I have exactly the same problems, I have a ragepro graphics card. Sometimes the menu is completely black before being filled in and some times just streaks of garbage like some random memory. GLX runs slightly under 700 fps, but when I open a menu it slows to below 400. I tried experimenting with xorg.conf. It does force changes but none for the better. It works as well without any xorg.conf. There seems to be no way to tweak graphics.
I removed the panel, which was located at the bottom of the screen. Then I added a panel which defaulted to the top of the screen. I added back the application launcher menu widget. Now menus open quickly rather than taking a couple of seconds as before. I see no obvious way to locate the panel at the bottom of the screen. I assume if I do, menu painting will be slow as before. Strange.
I put the application launcher menu on the desktop. I can put it where I want it. It is fast, almost immediate.
Graphics:
Those graphic glitches occur on other distros for me too. Often it is due to nvidia (cached pixmaps appearing on new windows, glitchy krunner and systray) but then there are others which occur for most gfx cards.
Adept:
I agree, I wonder what was going through the authors mind when he created that ui, with those irritating expanding descriptions, lack of options. Then again you can always use synaptic with Qt-gtk style. Far more functional and polished.
For an example of a decent kde package manager gui, I suggest Arch's shaman. I quite like it, probably by the time kde 4.2 comes out I'll be using arch, more work initially, but much more flexibility...
I agree, Xhit!
I am running Mandriva 2009 Powerpack which offers KDE 4.1.2. On my new Sony VAIO VGN FW140E/H laptop it is FAST and stable. The only program that has given me problems is Skype, but I replaced it with Ekiga. Did I mention it was also a beautiful DE?
Don't like the new menu? Right click on the menu button and chose the "Classic Menu".
I love Dolphin and how it works with mountable devices. Plug in a USB stick and it first shows in the "New Device Notifier" popup, where you can click on it and chose an option. Or, you can open Dolphin and select it in the "Places" panel. When you are done you can right mouse on its icon in the "Places" panel and select "Safely Remove".
I love how the "Cashew" icon works on the right end of the icon panel, and dittos for the larger "Cashew" icon in the upper right hand corner of the desktop.
I love how the KDE settings have been collected in the "Configure your Desktop" icon on the panel. Want to change the date and time on the panel clock? Look under its "General" tab for the "Regional & Language" icon.
The KDE Dev crew will be supporting security and bug patches in KDE 3.5.10 but don't expect new apps or improvements in existing apps built with QT3, because QT3 itself is in a security & bug patch only mode. That means that if someone or some group wants to continue the development of KDE3.x they will have to support the development of QT3 too. The first problem they will encounter is trying to create new forms (*.ui) without using the QT3-Designer. Very few coders can do that. Using the QT3-Designer forces them into an application development mode that is awkward and clumsy, to say the least. The QT4-Designer, by contrast, is a breeze to use and allows for the more standard form of C++ application development. The following website:
http://www.potu.com/man/doc.trolltech.com/4.0/qt4-intro.html
outlines how Qt4.0 is different from Qt3. Since then Qt4's development has continued to Qt4.4. This website outlines the MANY improvements in Qt4.4 over Qt4.3.4:
http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qt4-4-intro.html
As one can plainly see, it won't take long before those who dream of continuing the KDE3.5 development tree will be faced with the daunting task of upgrading the capabilities of Qt3 to do what Qt4.4 can do, or face a future stuck in the KDE3.5 past. They will be faced with the same choice that Trolltech faced: continue to kludge Qt3, with all the bloat and instability and bugs that would entail, or design QT4 from the ground up, and in a modular way. If putative KDE3.5 developers choose neither then it would be like one deliberately choosing to run Win95 and wondering why they can never use the new hardware or run the new apps.
Plasma is still work in progress, but it's better than kicker at it's current state (and Plasma does a lot more than kicker...).
Dolphin is a lot better designed for defualt file manager than Konqueror, period. If you like Konqueror mess you are free to use it.
System Settings is a better default than KControl.
The problem is the KDE 3 heritage, those application are a damn mess. Okular, Dolphin, System Settings, Koffice 2, the new KDE 4 apps are quite good.
+1
Totally agreed. Personally I find most of the arguments everybody here has made completely invalid.
I think they are basically inflexible Dinosaurs, railing that time has passed them by.
So certain that their world view is the only valid case and that the whole of kde development revolves around them. If they find change and REAL evolution so distressing maybe they should stick to gnome.
Whilst I want kde to succeed, I would rather it have lesser success with fewer idiots than more success with more idiots like those above...
I don't want to put down KDE 3.5x apps because they are rock solid and have paved the way for the 4 era but yes they have done their days. The one app that clearly stands out in improvement for me is KMail.
The KDE 3.5x version of KMail was a real mess, a buggy heap. When one compares the KDE 4 version with the older version then you just can't believe that they are related. It's not finished yet and still has rough edges but it's already a joy to use.
Seriously, KDE is now so depending of Qt that is not even funny anymore, KDE has become a big commercial for our pro-patent "friend" Nokia.
I remember when KDE had is own personality, his own spirit but now is just an extention of Qt.
So I propose to change the name from KDE to QDE.
What a load of crap.
How about some proof or at least anecdotes illustrating your point?
Nokia files patents just like most big companies. They fought heavily against open standards being used in HTML 5. That being said, there is no proof that Nokia is going to hurt QT or KDE that I've seen. They've been vocal in wanting to attract developers to work on FOSS projects and I thought it was a cool move to give away tablets to KDE devs.
If Nokia tried to close off QT, people would just fork the free version, and the commercial version would likely die off.
Looks like there are a lot of crabs around here. You know, crabs only have shit in their heads.
So gnome is what "microsffft-agrements" pro-patent beast novell friend?
it's fast, and responsive!!! enabling multi-verse repository in adept installer and installing kubuntu-restricted-extras, enables all java, flash, mp3, etc. support in amarok, xine. of course, software patents are not applicable to my country, India. also visit www.medibuntu.org.
Good news is that kubuntu 8.10 is just great.. latest xorg, kernel and all, simply smooth and responsive.
instead of reading the rants and complaints, why not try the very well done experience of kde 4.1.2 (and 4.2 will indeed be greater).
Thanks kubuntu team and KDE team for the gift!
I tried it yesterday. It's not as polished as openSuse usually is but it's the best Kubuntu that I have touched thus far. What I like about it is the way it handles codecs. A beginner doesn't have to know what to install in order to view his multimedia contents because it installs everything that you need for music and video automatically. I also like the way that they integrated the hard disk partitions in Dolphin.
I used to complain about Ubuntu's bastard daughter in the past but it looks like she is growing up to be a sexy lady :) Watch out Suse.
Still a load of problems, but at least it's usable now. There still seems to be a bunch of missing features that aren't to do with the Qt re-write, Plasma, etc, though - like RSS feeds missing from KTorrent, the ability to change the layout in KNode, and so-on. The new Adept is *really* awkward compared to the previous one. CPU usage seems rather high in general. The System Settings seems to want double-clicks instead of single-clicks. I still don't know why I can't change the colour of panels without having to create a whole new theme.
Given the number of clocks that were written during the testing of plasma, why can't the default clock put the time *next* to the date instead of trying to put it above it? Some of us don't like huge panels (as you may have gathered after the outcry over the panel size in KDE4.0)
Got to be honest, I just don't *get* plasma - as a rewrite for Kicker it's fine, but what's the point of putting a load of stuff directly on the desktop? The whole point of having windows is that the desktop is usually partially or totally obscured. You've ended up with 2 totally different (and not very compatible) paradigms for partitioning tasks on the desktop.
I've no doubt I'll be classed as a whiner for daring to not like everything about it, but I've tried to be constructive about things that are broken in either or both KDE4.1 and Kubuntu Intrepid, and I say this as a one-time (minor) contributor to parts of KDE.
It's fine if you don't get it. Just use it the same way you used kicker. But plasma is less about simply widgets on the desktop. It is more of a Gui constructing framework.
This essentially means that you can make the shell the way you want. Granted it is currently quite limited, but expect to see later more divergent concepts. The plasma devs are also working on a mid gui using plasma.
Regarding partitioning tasks. It is my personal belief that widgets on the desktop are a more passive rather than active form of interacting with data. Basically they are there to check and not to be used. There is some blending between active and inactive but generally the focus is on data visualisation and with standard windows data interaction.
I don't think you're a whiner. Simply because you have been honest and not spouted vitriol like some of the other posters. It is alright to complain as long as you are clear to what you want exactly. Even better would be to file a bugreport when requesting a feature to be implemented (like the clock).
p.s. I agree about adept...But I prefer to give it some time to see where it goes. You can always use synaptic if you need a gui...
RSS and Atom Feeds are already functioning in SVN trunk of ktorrent, they will be part of ktorrent 3.2.
Although i do use kde4 in my daily use, i definitly agree with debian guys in not putting kde4 in their next release.
I do love kde4 it really rocks, but i don't like distros that force you to use it.
That's why so many ppl complain about kde4, most of them were forced by distros like fedora 9 with that so many bugs kde4.
Kde4 HAD to be released, but it didn't needed to be used.
Forcing ppl is what is making copies and copies of windows vista stay on the market.
But whatever they do or do not, i'll never use a distro that removes the identity of a software by changing it's "icon" without truly modifying anything. They can do, but for me that's stealing, a K doesn't look like a hat or a stupid ring with dots around..