> You can't even set window-decorations(none,
> border-only, etc..)

try right clicking on a window titlebar and going into the "Decorations" menu where you will find ~10 different window decorations (include "smart" ones, that adjust according to their environment, such as B2K).. there isn't a "none" option there, though one could write a plugin that would do that as i understand.

> koffice-components crashing from time to time,
> the filters not being ready,

koffice is anything but ready for prime time.. it isn't at the same point of stability that the rest of the project is. as i understand it, though, koffice is an ancillary project to the KDE2 project. its more of a seperate project by many of the same people involved in KDE2 if nothing else.

> kio-processes dying,

yes, this is annoying... although i've seen a steady improvement over the last 3-4 releases. still, once in a while a kio* gets left around AFTER the process using it is gone.

> konqueror not handeling JavaScript correctly

that's what netscape's for =) konquerer is the only file manager i've ever used that is even half decent as a web browser. in fact, its more than half decent, its 98% decent =)

> but why not have it ready in a 2.0.0 version
> _even_ if it means waiting another 2 months

because waiting longer could result in a disastrous loss of user base for kde. users want/need a new desktop now; kde1 was great but the times have moved and something better is needed

also, by releasing it now the number of people using it (and therefore feedback) will jump tremendously. 6 months' to a year's worth of feedback will probably occur within 1-2 months by releasing it now as "2.0".

besides, haven't we learnt by now that *.0 means "usable, but not a lot of real world experience". kind of like a kid about to get his own place for the first time =)

• Re: Stability? by krazyC on Tuesday 17/Oct/2000, @13:51

  good point; but i think his concern is that instead of reporting bugs users would just switch desktops. my guess is that it probably won't happen, but that was his point.

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• Re: Stability? by Non Amiss Coward on Tuesday 17/Oct/2000, @19:55

  > Because waiting longer could result in a > disastrous loss of user base for kde. users > want/need a new desktop now; kde1 was great > but the times have moved and something better > is needed This is bull. Linux is still gaining users how could KDE "lose user base"?? Besides even if it is gradually "losing user base" (whatever that could possibly mean for a free OSS project) people use Kfm as a regular filemanager application as much as they use Netscape for surfing the web. KDE 1.1.2 is a very good and **way** more stable piece of work. There's not very many well maintained applications written specifically for KDE, but as a filemanager/desktop thingy it does the job. You obviously haven't been part of a project where a too early release has **COMPLETELY KILLED** it. Granted KDE may be too big for that too happend but if 5-10 gaping security bugs are found and something as bad as bug 10380 (which bit me in RC2) is widely experienced by "the user base" you'll see a lot worse situation than what happens when a release is late. Look at the Linux kernel --- it's like 6 months behind schedule but the "user base" is growing. Better to do it right than crap all over users. Thankfully most distribution packagers are likely going to wait a while given THE VAST NUMBER OF BUGS and unstability of KDE 2.0.0

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• Re: Stability? by Aaron J. Seigo on Wednesday 18/Oct/2000, @09:04

  >Linux is still gaining users how could KDE >"lose user base"?? Linux != KDE. The two may grow independantly and for different reasons. >KDE 1.1.2 is a very good and **way** more >stable piece of work Good point, if this was KDE2.1.2. Compare KDE1.0 to KDE2.0? On or before 2.1.2, KDE will be rock solid in every imaginably way I am sure. >You obviously haven't been part of a project >where a too early release has **COMPLETELY KILLED** it No, I strive only for successes @;-P But seriously, the "releasing early" is a two edged blade. Sometimes it is *exactly* what is needed, sometimes it is the death knell. It is not in and of itself a bad thing, however. It's a judgement call. It seems that a lot of people are spoiled (in a good way) by the stability of the last KDE. What is missing from this realization is that it took a while to get to that point. With KDE2, the programmers and users of KDE have to take the pill associated with any new software: its not as good as something that has had years of work put into simply polishing it. When KDE2 has been spit polished into 2.1.x, I have a feeling we'll all get to go back to being spoiled KDE users and programmers.

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• Re: Stability? by Andreas Joseph Krogh on Wednesday 18/Oct/2000, @00:20

  > try right clicking on a window titlebar and > going into the "Decorations" ... This is not what I mean. This just changes the look of _ALL_ windwos. What I mean is(and you probably know it) setting borderstyles on windows with sertain titles/class etc... like you could in kde-1.1.x > that's what netscape's for =) konquerer is the > only file manager i've ever used that is even > half decent as a web browser. in fact, its > more than half decent, its 98% decent =) This is what I think is the main problem of KDE2 right now. Waiting another few months could make everything 100% decent. Now everything is _almost_ decent. As I said, it's those little things which makes it feel incomplete. -- Andreas Joseph Krogh <andreak@nettverk.no>

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• Re: Stability? by Matt O on Tuesday 17/Oct/2000, @18:56

  All i have to say is artsd. the sound server is no where near prime time, and that is part of the core project (I think). I am using it now also, and I think it's great in many ways, but it's just not stable enough yet for 2.0. my 2cents.

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• Re: Stability? by Andreas Joseph Krogh on Wednesday 18/Oct/2000, @00:28

  > Try kstart --help I have, it's not nearly what I'm looking for, besides - it crashes Kwin a lot. > because most of the stuff you mentioned (besides the > crashes) are missing features and you can't add new > features in a freeze. Exactly, but those missing features are what makes it feel complete. I know, of course, that you cannot add features in a freeze, but hence the freeze is to early. -- Andreas Joseph Krogh <andreak@nettverk.no>

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