faq
flatforty
contribute
subscribe
configure
search
rdf
main
parent
thread
|
Re: Announcing KDE-Women!
by Vadim on Thursday 22/Mar/2001, @11:09
|
Hmm, but this is an already starting discrimination... I just think it's strange to have a kde-women group. If we begin like that, we could end with kde-men, kde-blacks and kde-whites and even worse stuff. I like a lot the idea of women joining the KDE project, but why don't they just join the main group?
BTW, your statement sounds really offensive to me. I'm not going to shup up by the simple reason that I don't think that a woman's opinion is more important than mine. I don't think that my opinion is more important than a woman's either. I think we're equal and I abosuletly won't take any decisions based on the gender of the author of anything.
Following your statement, if I'm a man, then I have the right to start KDE-men and women have to shut up, and if I'm a terrorist, I have the right to start KDE-terrorists and all the others have to shut up... |
|
|
The Fine Print: The following comments
are owned by whomever posted them.
( Reply )
|
Re: Announcing KDE-Women!
by Grass Hopper on Thursday 22/Mar/2001, @16:00
|
Here are the premises to your argument, I think, as culled from the above:
(1) men's and women's opinions matter equally
(2) you are a man
(3) you (and some other men) believe there is no need for a women's site
(4) women quite popularly believe there is a need for a women's site
From these predicates you conclude:
=> Women are wrong in thinking they need a women's site
Somehow, I think this argument works better for you if you replace (1) with:
(1) men's opinions are more important and more often right than women's
It is this sort of invidious (but subliminal) discrimination which lurks
underneath the statements of the men that make them which proves that in
fact there is a need for a women's site. If men were more understanding
of women's needs, there wouldn't be a need for a site like women.kde.org.
But you prove only that men are not understanding of women's needs, think
that women's understanding of women's needs is "wrong" and that therefor
women should get their own site where their needs will be respected.
The Grasshopper Has Spoken
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Announcing KDE-Women!
by Vadim on Thursday 22/Mar/2001, @16:49
|
Oh, hell. As usual somebody always has to find just the opposite interpretation of my words... well, english isn't my native language anyway...
(1) That's right
(2) Yeah, although first I'm a human being
(3) Wrong, women believe that too, my mother for example
(4) Read what follows...
I'm not saying that at all. What I'm trying to say is that if women have always tried to be equal, then I just think that they should be in the same group as everybody else. BTW, my mother thinks the same. And here's a friend's opinion:
"No. There is no difference between male and female programmers. I find that quite insulting in the way it is dumbed down for women :)"
It's prefectly reasonable to have a group for coders, another for artists and another one for i18n, just because some people can code, others can draw well and others know languages. That's useful. But why women? Aren't women also artists and coders? Don't they know languages?
If they have needs, that's just fine, but I simply don't see that the site has any content at all that would satisface those needs. At least what I've seen is projects made by women and tips and tricks. It looks much more like a newbies site than a women one. Correct me if there's something wrong here.
The programs made by women is the only really women-related thing I can find there, and I couldn't think of a very good reason to have it either. Ok, there are few female programmers. So? I think that women are equally capable of writing code, so why a special section?
If I was a woman, I would find it offensive just because of it's tips section... I mean, why the tips to get started are on the women site? Don't men also need some help? Or women are less intelligent? That's what I'm thinking about, not what you're saying.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
Re: Announcing KDE-Women!
by oda on Friday 23/Mar/2001, @17:17
|
It is a madness a man to rule on the neeeds of women. If one woman makes KDE-Woman
and if you dont like it then turns the dial, change the station. If their pages is against your rights then look for your lawyer but dont cry like a baby when a woman doesnt have the same opinions of your mother. You see, I am doing to you what you are
doing to the women of KDE-Woman. I am ruling on what you should do. Do you like it? I dont.
Then we need to shut up...
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
Re: Announcing KDE-Women!
by Vadim on Saturday 24/Mar/2001, @05:45
|
Look, first, I'm not crying like a baby. I've explained very clearly my position. And I'm not trying to rule at all. All I want is an explanation, and I'm definiely not resorting to a lawyer because I don't have the money, think that it would be really silly and also think that this can be perfectly discussed with a human language instead of lawyer stuff. Second, the fact that a woman did it means abosuletely nothing to me, because I consider women and men completely equal, with the exception of the obvious anatomical differences, of course. In my life I've met many very intelligent and nice women and stupid men, and also many stupid women and intelligent and nice men too. So please, stop telling me that a woman made it because it means nothing to me. BTW, you have only mentioned my mother. Well, my friend wasn't male. I was curious and asked more people at school, and all think the same as I. If they didn't, probably I wouldn't continue with this.
So far, I've asked several times a question that hasn't been answered yet. Why a site that contains mainly help is called KDE-women? Wouldn't it be better to call it KDE-newbies?
I am *not* against that site. What I don't like is separating men from women.
I'll explain it with a practical example. When I began using Linux, I didn't know about the apropos command. Now, I would never imagine that to get useful tips for the command line I could go to a site called KDE-women. No, not because I am a man. I wouldn't think that if I was a woman either. It's because I couldn't imagine what could be on that site.
Finally, I just would like to say, that I've never intended attacking it agressively. I'm just a thoughtful person who likes to discuss things. I always like to come to a point where either somebody explains me clearly why is my position wrong, admits that I am right, we both agree that our different opinions are compatible, or we decide that it's impossible to come to an agreement (this one would be the result of discussing purely philosophical things like what is life and if there is a god). I'll be very happy and will shut up immediately as soon as anybody gives me a good answer to the question from the second paragraph.
So far, the people who have replied me have either skipped what I believed was the most important part of my posts to focus on something I intended to be a joke, or told me how stupid I am for discussing this. Well, it'll make me really happy if somebody replies to me nicely and explains why am I wrong instead of shouting at me. Either here or by email. Then I'll be really glad to shut up. Really.
BTW, I don't "change the station". If everybody did that women would still be considered inferior, to begin with.
|
[
Reply To This | View ]
|
|
The Fine Print: The previous
comments are owned by whomever posted them.
( Reply )
|
|
![[KDE Dot News]](http://www.kde.org/dot/Images/kdedotnews.gif)
