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Re: how about making upgrades easier
by Michael O'Henly on Tuesday 10/Apr/2001, @19:58
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> If this continues, we might just end up with
> the developers and enthusiasts (with a good
> connection) remaining up2date with KDE and
> others using an ages-old KDE!
Gotta agree with this. Complaining about users not understanding that vendors are responsible for binary packages may be justified but it's also missing the point.
Are you (KDE developers) not concerned that your hard work is lost on many who could benefit from it the most? The promise of KDE is ease of use -- and the pain of updating is an "ease of use" issue!
I use Linux-Mandrake, a distro that has contributed a great deal to KDE. But even Mandrake can't seem to get it right when it comes to updates. They post the binaries with little or no documentation -- 2.1.1 appeared without even a README explaining how to uninstall older versions and replace with newer, how to deal with dependencies, etc. The Mandrake mailing lists are full of posts from frustrated users, many of whom end up reinstalling the whole OS because their KDE update went off the rails.
KDE is frankly rocking the *nix world right now with its development schedule. It would be great if a mechanism could be developed that would make it easier for average users to actually use these frequent updates. |
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Re: how about making upgrades easier
by rsv on Tuesday 10/Apr/2001, @21:46
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Very true! I am using SuSE linux 7.0 (previously used RH6.2, so had to get used to SuSE first). I always end up downloading a version of kde just when the next version is released. It takes nearly 2 nights and a fat phone bill (coupled with angry relatives complaining that the phone is engaged) to download kde fully. Couldn't get the sources to compile (I saw the solution in the compilation faq tho'), so I used the SuSE rpms. These weren't very friendly either. I finished downloading kde2.1 just when 2.1.1 was released. Then I see reviews of the next kde and curse myself. *damn*
I am mostly using konqueror now (works even better than IE bundled with Windows ME, particularly with ftp). Konqueror is great for everyday use, but lacks the one feature I would like, ie a good download manager. I have to switch to windows to use Flashget, which seems to make the best use of the bandwidth available to me. Is there a download manager for kde2.1? I used Caitoo from kde1.2 but did not like it much.
My first post to the dot using konqueror.
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download manager
by Louis on Wednesday 11/Apr/2001, @01:01
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Hi,
there are several good download managers (with stop/restart in case connection breaks) on Linux.
a text based is wget which is very reliable. I believe there are front-ends for it, go take a look at apps.kde.org.
The one I use is 'Downloader for X' (nt) which is not kde and not wget but easy to use:
http://www.krasu.ru/soft/chuchelo/
don't use Win for theese tasks because it is no good staying 2 nights online whith that OS, unless you like getting in trouble ;-)
have fun,
Louis
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Re: how about making upgrades easier
by Amibug on Wednesday 11/Apr/2001, @03:44
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I think some of us are missing the point that you dont _have_ to update KDE if you dont want to. Just because 2.1.1 comes out 2 months after 2.1 it dosent mean you _have_ to download it.
You can adopt a policy of downloading every second or third release. Sure updates could be compiled for older versions of KDE but that would create quite a bit more work, and at any rate its up to the Distributions to do that, not KDE
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Re: how about making upgrades easier
by Johan Veenstra on Wednesday 11/Apr/2001, @04:01
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You may want to look into compiling KDE from source. Once you've downloaded the source, cvsup only gets the changes (and these are compressed as well).
About the download manager: wget should be all you need, but I suspect your ISP is a complete crap, so a download manager could bbe usefull.
Johan V.
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Re: how about making upgrades easier
by Aaron J. Seigo on Tuesday 10/Apr/2001, @22:25
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Well, I obviously don't speak for the KDE developers, but here is my take on it....
The KDE developers are just that: developers. Their _self appointed_ (e.g. voluntary) task is to create this tremendous architecture which all of humanity is free to benefit from.
So, why don't they extend this just a bit further and provide actual binaries? Here are three reasons that I can think of:
1) TIME. They are already extraordinarily busy creating the technology. Would you prefer development slowed down significantly, or that people would do what they do not enjoy doing thereby stripping them of the joy they find in this pursuit (and increasing the odds that they will stop)?
2) EXPERTISE. The organizations behind each Linux distribution, BSD variant and commercial Unix all create their own environments. For the KDE developers to take on the task of supporting these operating systems with binaries is not only doing the job of these distributors, but means that the KDE people would have to work with all the iodiosyncracies of each OS. Every OS has its own way of doing things and therefore the different sets of packages will and do vary. Who knows the OS best and is therefore in the best position to create binary distributions for it? Why, the companies who make them in first place.
3) FAIRNESS. To officially provide binaries for any given OS, but not for others, would imply a favoritism that is not a part of the KDE project. Within KDE all *nix, *BSD and Linux systems are treated with interest (assuming that there are KDE'ers on that given system). The amount of work that goes into making sure KDE builds on a wide variety of platforms is very impressive. Therefore, if the KDE team themselves can not provide quality binaries for each and every supported system themselves, I think it is a good idea to treat all of them equally and request that either the OS manufacturers themselves or interested users create the binary packages.
Finally... remember. There is no body stopping you as a loyal user of your operating system from stepping up to the plate and creating wonderful binary distributions of KDE. In fact, this would probably be more than welcomed by your fellow users if your OS provider isn't doing their job well. This is how debian, HP/UX, Solaris and (to my knowledge) FreeBSD get their binaries: users stepping up to the challenge.
Around and within the KDE project there are programmers, artists, documenters, translators, testers..... and there are packagers. I think this only makes sense. I also think that with enough encouragement from that other group of KDE people, the USERS, the OS manufacturers can and will step up to the plate and offer quality KDE binary packages. Vote with your voice and with your dollars, and perhaps even some of your own energy. That is how this world of Open Source Software works....
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