Re: Speed? And a (good) suggestion for themes

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Re: Speed? And a (good) suggestion for themes
by Carbon on Saturday 02/Jun/2001, @02:49

Craig, there's no need to act like KDE is omnipotent. GNOME does have several nice features that I miss somewhat from my earlier linux experiences(such as nested cabinets), and I think that in the future a merge will certainly be a good idea. If we get serious commercial gui development (and I think we will) having two DE's and two DE toolkits is akin to having two executable formats (except that porting between is much harder).

Please, stop the anti-GNOME stuff.

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Re: Speed? And a (good) suggestion for themes
by Craig on Saturday 02/Jun/2001, @09:21

I Hear a lot of this merge talk. Sorry if i'm ignorante but how are the two desktops going to merge? Are you talking merge of the teams? Once Xiamian goes under i could see more gnome developers defecting across the wall but i don't see how there could be a merge of the desktops. Even if it would be technically feasable which i'm not sure that it could be i still don't think we would want to do it anyway. In the end there can be only one. If i sound too pro kde well this is the dot so i think i'm permitted that.

Craig

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Re: Speed? And a (good) suggestion for themes
by Carbon on Saturday 02/Jun/2001, @19:53

>How are the two desktops going to merge?

I believe it's techincally feasible, if not right at the moment. Haven't you heard about the work on the gtk wrapper? Even with the speed decrements, that will mean very little in a couple years as optimizations improve and hardware becomes much cheaper and faster.

>Once Ximian goes under i could see more gnome developers defecting

It isn't defecting! That's just what I'm talking about, we aren't in competition! We both have the same goal, to provide a good Open Source desktop enviroment to the masses, and there's no reason at all we can't help each other, since there is almost no profit motivation!

>In the end there can only be one.

Nope, not true. Although a merge would be good, development on either of these projects will stop only once developer interest stops, and that's highly unlikely at this point since both DE's have a major user following. If we don't merge, what could also happen is we could both move toward different but similar niches with the DE scope (similar to what happened with emacs and vim, imho).

>If I sound too pro-kde well this is the dot so i think i'm permitted that

I wasn't saying you weren't. Similarly, this is the dot, and I'm allowed to tell you I think you're wrong :-)

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Re: Speed? And a (good) suggestion for themes
by Craig on Sunday 03/Jun/2001, @09:20

>Even with the speed decrements, that will mean very little in a couple years as optimizations improve and hardware becomes much cheaper and faster.

Sounds like what they said about java. Your wrong here its a bad idea.

>we aren't in competition!

Huh? Hello Mcfly

>development on either of these projects will stop only once developer interest stops

Reality check. The majority of development on gnome will dry up when the VC money dry's up. One down one to go.

Craig

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Re: Speed? And a (good) suggestion for themes
by Carbon on Sunday 03/Jun/2001, @23:09

>>Even with the speed decrements, that will mean very little in a couple years as optimizations improve and hardware becomes much cheaper and faster.

>Sounds like what they said about java. Your wrong here its a bad idea.

Actually, you're probably right about that. What about diversion? I.e. both projects become more specialized toward a particular purpose. Perhaps GNOME will move more toward embedded devices and KDE more towards generalized PC usage, or GNOME in the office and KDE at home.

This happened, imho, in a way with emacs and vim : both have a heavy following, and both are in the general catagory of 'text editors', and one could argue convincingly about either being the best. But lately (at least as I have observed) vim seems to be used more for web development, and emacs for compiled languages, although either can be used for the other one.

>>we aren't in competition!

>Huh? Hello Mcfly

No really. We aren't in competition! Why should we be? We aren't competing over profits, we both have similar goals and similar motivations, and there is no 'war' because the success of one does not mean the other will die.

This is because the sucess of any Open Source bazaar-style project is determined entirely on how much developers are interested in it.

GNOME is not dependant on commercial money right now in the same way KDE is not dependant on commercial money right now : any developer of either project would probably be working on it anyways even if they weren't being paid, money just speeds up the process.

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Re: Speed? And a (good) suggestion for themes
by Craig on Monday 04/Jun/2001, @10:05

Without VC gnome would'nt have Nautalus or Redcarpet or Evolution. Enough said.

Craig

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Re: Speed? And a (good) suggestion for themes
by Carbon on Monday 04/Jun/2001, @23:11

No, not enough said. These programs are pretty core progs, being (i believe) in order a browser/fileman, an installer, and a groupware suite, but just because they were developed as commercial interest doesn't mean they or something similar would never exist.

I suppose that had kivio not existed, it would have been impossible for kde to ever have a diagramming app and python bindings? Of course not, kivio's help merely speeded up the process.

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Re: Speed? And a (good) suggestion for themes
by jj on Saturday 02/Jun/2001, @16:56

A merge is not going to happen. There are too many differences. However, there will certainly more cooperation on some projects which can be done separately of the GUI and you just need to write a frontend for it. The possible use of aRts in Gnome and a version of the Ximian configuration utility are some possible projects were such cooperation can happen.

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Re: Speed? And a (good) suggestion for themes
by Carbon on Saturday 02/Jun/2001, @19:57

>A merge is not going to happen

I dunno about that, I've seen some incredible things happen on both projects. Perhaps in the end developes will write using whatever toolkit they want, and at least a sort-of port will be possible due to two-way wrappers, albiet slower then normal. Have you seen the gtk wrapper project? I also seem to recall something called KIMP, can someone provide URL's for either of those?

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